Find a job like a treinee

[ROVRatt]

Thanks Ray and James for the input.

Grov, I am a heavy current marine electrical fitter with PLC and industrial electronics training. I have been the chief electrician of a ship as well and have spent all my life in the maritime industry.

I have been in ROV for three years and even with my past experience, started off as a trainee (R05). I was employed by the company because of my technical qualifications and experience and did their in house ROV course. I have close on 400 days offshore on heavy work class ROV systems. I have only progressed by having my competencies signed and the only thing holding me back is waiting to sign certain competencies because I have to be there and do the job to get it signed.

Seeing guys walk into the system with a PT2 qualification after 7 hours on a toy ROV really grates me. Somehow I feel as if I’m being short changed. At least I do know that a person with these quals will probably not get employment in the ROV industry because the companies won’t recognise them.

No offence meant Grov and nothing personal but somehow I cannot see how the schools teach administration, preventative maintenance, technical ability, Piloting Skills ("demonstrating spatial awareness of umbilical positions, turns and loads on at least three different occasions"), Navigational Activity (Especially in a complex field), teamwork and co-operation and emergency procedures. How the heck can anyone master all these on a ROV system in a few weeks?

Just to clear this up, I have the following questions:

Did the course teach you how to:

1. Tell the office that a part is defective and how to get a new one?
2. Tell you how to find an hydraulic leak?
3. Teach you how to interpret a sonar picture and set the gain for the best picture?
4. Show you how to test for a few thousand volts on an electric motor?
5. Terminate a fibre optic cable?
6. Participate in an umbilical retermination?
7. Exit and enter a cage/TMS?
8. Perform basic manipulator tasks?
9. Perform air and water checks on system hydraulics?
10. Use an OTDR to test a fibre optic cable?

These are just 10 items I took out of my competency book for pilot tech.

So how does someone get a PT2 qual at these schools?

[GROV]

Hi ROVRatt,thanks for replay in this way. Here is what they teach us on the course: – retermination of SMD plough armured umbilical Electrical retermination of Perry Scarab III workclass ROV Termination of umbilical fibres using hot melt ST connectors. Use of fibre optic test equipment to confirm optical losses Fusion splicing of fibre tais Harness repairs,moudled joints,tape and schotchkote repairs Familiar with basic electrical testing,continuity,V,I,R and insulating testing. Use of scopometers and oscilloscopes for testing of camera systems on Perry Scarab ROV Testing and fault finding on manipulator dcv valve tank. Identification of bouth electrical and mechanical faults Compensator refurbishment,diaphragm/bag replacment

I think that its not to bad for intro in ROV. I have no expirience in offshore and i know that tis is a big problem for me.Im working for 10 years like Master Electitian and I have teach 8 generation of trainee in my field.So im not just a guy who won to go in ROV industry jus for fun,but to get some new expirience.

Regards

[Ray Shields]

Just to clear this up, I have the following questions:

Did the course teach you how to:

1. Tell the office that a part is defective and how to get a new one?
2. Tell you how to find an hydraulic leak?
3. Teach you how to interpret a sonar picture and set the gain for the best picture?
4. Show you how to test for a few thousand volts on an electric motor?
5. Terminate a fibre optic cable?
6. Participate in an umbilical retermination?
7. Exit and enter a cage/TMS?
8. Perform basic manipulator tasks?
9. Perform air and water checks on system hydraulics?
10. Use an OTDR to test a fibre optic cable?

These are just 10 items I took out of my competency book for pilot tech.

So how does someone get a PT2 qual at these schools?

A lot of these things you list are competencies for a PILOT TECH, not a PILOT TECH 2. Strictly going by the listed competencies by IMCA for a PT2 then technically people CAN be called a PT2 once they completed their course.

As I said, this shows how WEAK the Standard is, all that is happening is that Training Schools use these weak standards to produce PT2s who then sometimes think they are qualified.

Me, I would call the current PT2 standard a required ENTRY level for an ROV Trainee.

[GROV]

Thanks for the input rayshields,

I have newer told that im qualified PT2,but just to have a certificate for pt2.I won to start like a trainee like everybody else.

[GlobalNomad]

How many times does Grov have to reiterate his position, cut the guy some slack. Grov there is So much valuable info on this site only if you’re able to wade through the negativity towards newcomers to the field. I assure you most of your questions can be answered if you take the time to surf around this forum and the Internet. learn to filter out the BS. Hang in there mate.

[James McLauchlan]

I think is it fair to say that GROV has made most certainly made his point by the very name he chose for the thread title when he started this thread.

His intentions are clear. He is looking for work as a trainee.

Since GROVs initial post the thread seems to have shifted into the ins and outs of PTII v Trainee.

It might be that another thread should be started to cover this very topic but I can see how the thread title is connected with the Trainee PTII issue because here you have a person asking about how to get work as a trainee and on the other hand you have the same person saying they are PTII.
That is bound to start up a discussion on the merits of the current grading standards.

I’m sure that, in the process, GROV is picking up a few things about this industry even though it may not be helping him get a job.

best regards
James Mc

[mido]

10 or even 20 years back..how did you guyz cut your way through this industry so we can do just like you did as long as you dont prefer going to any of those expensive poor in outcome schools out there

[Scott Beveridge]

Mido,

A very good question…. As for myself? There have 7 slack years (including the beginning of this year) out of 29 years. For example: in 1991, I worked only 89 days on dayrate… My solution? I diversified to something totally out of the O & G industry AND my trade. Took a chance albeit not too expensive.

Bottom line? Have something to fall back on and / or invest wisely….

[ROVRatt]

Rayshields wrote:

A lot of these things you list are competencies for a PILOT TECH, not a PILOT TECH 2.

Correct Ray, thats what I said. I was using it as an example, not believing that fly by night schools would teach these points.

My beef is not with Grov, I believe that he will make a good ROV PT due to his background and I know he wants to start as a trainee. My beef is with the schools giving out quals. However, the skills taught on Grovs course are quite surprising so maybe we should find out more of what these courses actually teach.

Grov, how long did your course last? I wish you the best in landidng a job as you already have far more skills than some of the guys I have met offshore.

[GROV]

Hi ROVRatt,
The duration of the course is 3W. 1.W is only teorical part about safty,systems,tip of platforms…
Next 2W 1 day is in the port with seaeye doing some inspection,finding bottles on seabed,exit-enter from cage,using sonar,pre-post dive check…
And 1 day is in office doing technical thing like i write you some of them.
In 1.week we write a teorical exam for pt2 witch we must past,at the end of course we write a teorical exam for Pt1 but we must have checked in logbook every thing you have write before but x3 time to get a pt1 certificate.

Regards

[Ray Shields]

In 1.week we write a teorical exam for pt2 witch we must past,at the end of course we write a teorical exam for Pt1 but we must have checked in logbook every thing you have write before but x3 time to get a pt1 certificate.

Regards

But you cannot properly be certified to be a Pilot Tech 1 by attending any of the current ROV Training Schools – the IMCA guidelines for teh Competency for PT1 states you must have 100 hours of ROV piloting – one thing I know of no school offering.

If Global marine Systems are offering to certify people at PT1s without them having this, then they are definately lying big time.

[GROV]

Hi rayshields,
Like I told to ROVRatt,this what are you telling is true. I can get a pt1 certivicate after signed 100h,180 days offshore and signed 10 tasks in log witch i must do it for 3 time each and must be signed by supervisor.The only thing i dont hawe to write an exam becouse i passed it on course witch is not obligatory to pass.

Regards

[Bill Bulloch]

Hi GROV,
I hope that you get the break. Well done for standing up for your self and you do sound to have more knowledge of what is required than most of the wannabe trainees taht visit this site.
Due to the large influx of trainees over the past couple of years, I think that experienced guys are just a bit tired of ‘diluted’ teams.
However, when companies are/were buying 10x systems at a time and hoping to man them immediatley, then we need a reasonable influx of newbies willing to learn. Its the quality of the trainees that matter.
Tainees need to be willing to put in a bit of effort, and unfortunaelty we’ve all seen too many that are unwilling to pick-up a manual and read it off their own back.
You do sound to have a buit more though, stick with it and best of luck.

[crawdaddy1]

Take it from the wind-up master, this is a wind up. Notice:

1) The grammar and spelling become increasingly worse after several threads to add to the wind up.

2) Global Marine Systems is a dead / dying telecom cable installation company that was once owned by Global Crossings, a smoke and mirrors stock market trick that ended up bank-rupting Global Marine Systems back in the 1998 -2001 telecom cable boom. The company is now owned by private investors and they "squeak by" on cable maintenance projects. Are they really spending money on ROV training courses???

Yaaawn..try another angle for the wind-up mate.

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