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[Ray Shields]

3) IMCA ROV Supervisor Cert

There is no such thing.

IMCA do not certify anyone, any training school that issues a certificate that says a person is IMCA certified is also untrue.

There is no such official qualification as ROV Pilot or ROV Supervisor.

IMCA have a minimum competency GUIDELINE for different levels; IMCA (a trade organisation NOT a statutory or government one) also suggest a competency scheme.

Do wish companies would go to the bother of finding out, and that Agencies would educate their clients.

[Roy Simson]

We both keep on telling them Ray but no body seems to listen its the same with Log Books and courses " It is not mandatory that ROV personnel should carry IMCA ROV log books. IMCA as a trade association does not mandate, regulate or control members’ operations. The role of IMCA as a trade association is to offer good practice guidance in the area of competence and training amongst other areas.

That said, IMCA members and their clients are free to make it a requirement that ROV personnel should have an IMCA ROV log book, and many do so.

Cheers

Raptor

[deepseacon]

Well that company in Question has contact with MTCS.

[andyrose]

Ray, Raptor

I do not often get involved with the discussions on the site. I know that a few people have worked very hard to make this site work and I thank them for that effort, but sadly there is so much drivel spouted, backbiting etc and the inability of a group of such talanted individuals to be able to organise and co-ordinate a coherent and sensible group that could quide and benefit our whole industry leaves me frustrated and disheartened. It also leaves us open to the whims of unscupulous companies who make claims which confuse and effectively defraud people of their hard earned money.

IMCA Certs.
Perfectly correct, IMCA do not authorise anything regarding ROVs – they do, as you say, issue guidelines against which companies can then say that their training "complies with the IMCA guidelines" and certificates can be issued.

I think the confusion that is arising here is that an IMCA member company can use the IMCA logo on there paperwork but if you actually read the paperwork properly, and do not just assume what is being said, you will find all it states is that the company is an IMCA member and makes no claim to anything else.

Ultimately any certificate is a piece of documented evidence that the person has attended a course of some type – the value of that evidence really depends on the standards, quality and honesty of the company issuing it and more importantly the issuing authorities integrity (much like a degree – Cambridge or Oxford will carry more clout than smallsville USA) – and there is a minefiled because that is open to profiteering and unscrupulous behaviour by some companies. This is not just on the behalf of the training companies either, some of the larger ROV companies use their internal courses (which are IMCA compliant) to keep their employees down on lower pay grades (while hiring them out to end clients at higher grades) by carving the IMCA competence suggestions into several parts. I have even heard of one very large company who, after enrolling its staff on an internal competence scheme, then refused to give the certificate to the individual when he left their employ.

My advice is to find a company who is affiliated with an issuing authority such as EAL/EMTA – something which at least attempts to give a standardised and coherent certificate.

As to the comment in the thread that suggests MTCS are less than honest I find that very hard to believe. I did my original course (and several subsequent ones) with MTCS (then Subserv) and have always found their training thorough and practical and (probably more important) good value for money. I know that they vet CVs and if they feel your background does not give you a reasonable chance of future emplyment in the industry they will not train you – which is more than I can say for other establishments which will try to sell you very costly additional training courses.

It may also be worth noting that several Clients are now asking for competency certificates that are issued by companies complying with IMCA guidelines as prerequisite – this is certainly occuring in Asia more frequently – and I would urge any freelancer who is not in posession of competence certficates to enrole in a suitable "experienced persons" scheme (we called it grandfathering) and qualify themselves. The OGP’s, in light of recent "accidents", are adopting the IMCA guidelines as their favoured method of competence assessment.

Hope this helps someone find their way through the minefield of confusion and expert advice!!

And for the guys who do work hard for this site – thanks once again!

Andy

[marsvoltaire]

We both keep on telling them Ray but no body seems to listen its the same with Log Books and courses " It is not mandatory that ROV personnel should carry IMCA ROV log books. IMCA as a trade association does not mandate, regulate or control members’ operations. The role of IMCA as a trade association is to offer good practice guidance in the area of competence and training amongst other areas.

That said, IMCA members and their clients are free to make it a requirement that ROV personnel should have an IMCA ROV log book, and many do so.

Cheers

Raptor

Hi,

So, if the IMCA Rov logbooks is not mandatory.. How would know if the rov pilot/supervisor has got some piloting experience. It is easy to say that you know how to pilot an rov without any proof.

[deepseacon]

My point is MTCS are the training provider for this company.

[Roy Simson]

I never say any thing without the supporting evidence , I contacted IMCA regarding log books and who can do assessments , Should you wish to see any of the emails I receive please PM me and I will send you a copy .

My own view for what its worth is if your just coming into the industry then keep a log book but also get a working reference from your previous company .

As for the Log Books without the supporting evidence any body can and does make them up at the end of the day " Can You Fix and Fly " If you cant then your just be removed and find your self on the next crew change .

As for who can perform assessments well looking on the IMCA web site on the FAQ it states Supervisors and Mangers and that training facilities should not . Mine you it makes sense how can you do a assessment without knowing the person .

Well this subject is allot better to debate then cheap kitchen units !

Cheers Guys

Raptor

[Robert Black]

Yeah, hear hear.

We were gonna write "must have a certificate from a training company saying you have been assessed in line with IMCA guidelines saying you are competent at the appropriately aforementioned grade"

Somehow an "IMCA Supervisor Cert" just rolled off the tongue better. Slow week for finding things to complain about is it girls?

Fact 1. As Andy Rose mentioned; nearly all our clients out here want to see the ‘cert’ as they call it for whatever grade of guy we are submitting.

Fact 2. Yes, it is a pain in the butt. However, you will all need one soon enough if you want to work as a Day-rater.

Fact 3. The guys we have brought in who didn’t have one of these were all happy as the proverbial when I filled in the paperwork and got them their own one.

Keep calm and carry on.

Regards

Rab

[Andy Shiers]

Unfortunately , It still has not stopped "Numpties" from being able to acquire through agencies ( And there appear to be a few more wanting in on the action ) these certs even though they do NOT have the experience …………. This then makes a mockery of the whole Competancy scheme 👿

[James McLauchlan]

Somehow an "IMCA Supervisor Cert" just rolled off the tongue better. Slow week for finding things to complain about is it girls?

Not sure they were having a dig at you Rab.

It’s just that companies are starting to ask for a certificate that is not backed, nor issued, by the IMCA. The point being made was, I guess, an IMCA supervisors certificate does not exist.

[Jesery]

It’s good to see this discussion…

[Author]

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