Seaeye hand controllers: THE POLL IS HERE!!

[Savante]

OK – here’s the background to the poll.

Seaeye are creating new vehicles -their new Jaguar shown at Oi08 conference – with a new controller system that is nothing like the original tried and tested hand controller system.

What are your thoughts?

I am biased – I’m left handed, but found their original handset to be extremely good fun to use – it could sit in your lap as you fly and could be hung on a coat hook. Also if I broke the joystick I could fly on the trim controls. The auto-head and auto-depth functions were also really intuitive.

Do you think the design needs to be changed out?

I’ll put in a "don’t really care" option.

[Savante]

I’ll leave this to run for a couple of months and then post Nik Pyle the results.

[Bluewater]

Hi Savante,
I have no problems at all with the old HC, but my vote would be better qualified if I had some knowledge of what the new HC looks like. Can you give us some insight?
BRgds
Joe

[James McLauchlan]

I’ll leave this to run for a couple of months and then post Nik Pyle the results.

Good idea anyway… nice to see some more interaction like this in the Forum.

You might want to add a final option:

‘Not Voting – Show me the results.’

[Savante]

James,

can’t add it – the edit facility doesn’t seem to allow additional items.

Bluewater – its fairly similar (maybe even the same one) to the falcon Hand controller. It’s like a flat panel with a joystick, two silver wheels (in vertical position) and a couple of buttons on it. I’ll ask Nik to email me a picture if he can.

[Bluewater]

Cheers oh-Savvy one. My biggest gripe with the Falcon HC is the lack of trim and the bloody ridiculous vert wheel and tilt wheel. The standard joystick has the top press switch, but is redundant; when logically it should have been the ‘auto heading’ switch.

[misiuek]

its a vicious circle seayeye want to break into the ‘workclass market’ but with proven equipment and undoubtledly to save costs. how many workclass guys have ever got used to the little box and how many ‘obs guys like sitting at a desk.

it was always excepted that the bottom racking for a seaeye was for a foot rest!? tilt chair back away u go. back to a workclass sit straight and watch the many more shiney buttons and screens.

the controller should fit the vehicle not somebody in the office who doesnt know what it is like offshore. (quark good example!)

i personnally love the old black controller everything is there that you need the new panthers theres even more there that you need. the falcon controls suck in comparison.

best idea for the jaguar is a desk with the possibility of plugging in a seperate box then you are covered the workclass lot will be happy and the obs guys can come along plug in the box feet up and show how easy it is!!

its going to be loads of fun, remember when the 1st panthers came out and then oil filled junction boxes theres was mass gasps across the seas now give them a seaeye with orions and rig masters such like,,,, those gasps will turn to tears. some for joy as they are sick of the wimpy excuse called hydrolek and tears of ooo dear whats THAT!

on a final note, i really hope then we will see less of a divide between obs and workclass as it really will be an ROV is an ROV.

[Savante]

I think the idea of plug in the old handset would do the Seaeye boys some real credibility with the eyeball guys and definately go someway to kicking the divide with the work class. Do you think we might end up with dual control ROVs? Instructor and student ??? 😆

The only other thing about the jag is that she appears almost unnecessarily tall, they could cut the height, not really impinged on her sensor payload at all and cut her cross-section down in half (would have done little to reducing her mass in reality but the drag would come down). The manips are definately a step above the hydro-lek bang bangs.

It definately looks a credible alternative to the commanche at least.

At the end of the day, Seaeye go for the idea of high power/mass ratio and I like the idea of flying light work class intervention jobs with an eyeball – lower mobilisation time/complications.

And yeah, the work class have it at present on power, but these new leckys are definately able to compete with the 1980’s Scorpios I think on power. (Some non-upgraded scorpios only 80hp – but I think they carry about 400kgs more mass? Super-scorpio is over 2300kgs)

SM-08 – – will be interesting to see how it fairs with the SPE-380 on MTBF and bollard pull/top end.

[reg]

The new Jaguar!?!

Where do you see it fitting in?

In a direct attack on the hydraulic ROV market, Saab Seaeye has launched an innovative new concept in electric work ROVs. Called the Seaeye Jaguar, it is now the largest in their range and the most advanced of its type in the world. Its launch marks the introduction of an entirely new generation of electric underwater vehicles with technological innovations set to maintain the company’s lead in the electric ROV market.

Is it a direct attack?
Is the rig support market looking for an electric weakling?
Is it a good 2nd ROV when the prime is a 150 / 200hp hydraulic vehicle?
Is it time to hire an ex trawler (Old – UDI – Northern Prince) and go cheap survey?
Or would it complement a High end Survey vessel (DOFsubsea Geograph II) ?

Any thoughts?

[Savante]

Bump…..

Someone must have had a good business model to pull a pair of megabucks from a sponsor. 😆 I reckon it’s a predominantly seaeye-fleet operator before anyone would have the confidence to push that through on a new design. Anyone going to own up??

At first glance, I think on "back of the envelope" calculations the Jag has the power to match something the size of a Sealion 3000 (although not the payload capacity!) for a survey task (although I don’t know if Fugro use them for that role deliberately?)- the good survey stuff tends to be H.Eagle and their super spartan.

Further things to consider – frame shape of the Jaguar – considerably more open frame – cross section is predominated by the shape of the buoyancy – very low profile.

This leads to a very low added mass (F=ma doesn’t apply underwater due to hydrodynamics – it’s F= m(1+Ka)a – got to look at the volume of the water being pushed by the vehicle too.

where ka is shape dependent and is better for cuboids with long and thin profiles.

Re-arranging

a=F/m(1+Ka)

hence, if the Jag has a lower profile and substantially lower mass, the added mass should be reduced significantly by comparison to the Sealion. In addition, the Sealion has double the mass in the first place. So would expect the Jag to be considerably more agile in terms of acceleration and rotation characteristics.

In addition, the drag co-efficients for the Jaguar should be a lot more improved by comparison – inertial and skin drag due to the low cross section.

Forward Bollard pull:

SL: 550kg
JAG: 330kg

Vertical bollard pull

SL: 330kg
JAG: 225kg

Quite comparable. How long before the Jaguar goes Jaguar Plus and we get the second rank of lateral thrusters. Heh heh heh. The game is afoot gents.

Different added mass co-efficients have to be used here if you were to consider vertical lift, but again the jag should be more responsive in terms of acceleration.

Whilst I think the Sealion would win over the Jaguar in a raw tug of war or even in a heavy-lift competition (low speed- hence drag forces never really get into it), but how many operations require a lift > 100-50kg due to the mounting of the manips anyway? Actually prob quite a lot to think about it.

I think the Jaguar may indeed be capable of cheap survey and may very well provide a viable and effective "alternative".

Not even considered the tether diameter yet – look up morrison’s equation for calculating lateral resistive forces on a tether – but it goes down quite a bit on tether diameter. How much of the big vehicles spend energy just overcoming friction.

At the end of the day, mobilisation costs can be quite high these days. Be interesting to see if this product starts winning tenders.

Think we might be entering an underwater equivalent of henrys mustang vs. chapmans lotus.

But I’m really just considering the inspection pipeline survey market at the moment.

[Ray Shields]

Why compare the Jaguar to a Sealion? Thats like a BMW vs a Lada 😀

[Savante]

Heh heh heh, damn ray!! 😆

‘Twas trying to prove a point that the electrics are prob up in the region of hydraulic systems as per the grand ole 80-90’s. Only 27 years of evolution left to do I guess. 😆

If you look at the Sub Atlantic SPE-380’s they are already capable of 220kg bollard pull, about an extra 90kgs more per thruster – but you need Schilling to do the controls. Boo.

I think the lecky systems for the near future will have to put the second rank up if they definately try to get the brute power. But do you really need it for 40% of the market tasks? The Jag can already pull 3 knots (allegedly). High resolution sonar for depth of burial measurements would be an issue at full pelt. Say 1 sample per 1.5 seconds at 1.5m per second.

The Schilling UHD, Triton XLX are definately capable of 1.1-1.2tonne bollard pull and I think you could use them to rip the arse end off the jag anyway. By the same argument as mine, you could argue that you could have 4 tonnes of lateral thrust if someone went to the top end of the hydraulic thruster market and put up a 400hp HPU system. Holly sh1t.

The other nice thing is you don’t need 3kV down the tether with the Jaguar – so you can employ numpties like me as you don’t need the high V megger equipment.

In the north sea though – how many people do 500-1600m excursions from the TMS at 3000m depth??

Tool for the toolbox.

[Ray Shields]

Im quite sure the Jaguar will fit in a slot in the market. As long as the deck footprint and power requirements are kept down, then it can fit onto vessels that normal workclass cant.

Electric vehicles have to be more efficient in theory. You cut out the middleman buy converting electric to thrust as opposed to electric to mechanical movement to hydraulics to thrust.

If it has the node control system of a Falcon and single mode fibres that carries all the data you will need and loads of room on an empty frame to "clag" things onto, then it will be a winner.

[Savante]

bump !!!

[polo]

Hi guys , just had the pleasure of working on a new-ish system designed by non ROV experience people, you sit in a comfortable chair and have two full size joysticks, left and right, with your nav/survey/camera etc touch screen mountable either side. The joysticks are easily programable by the original operator——–rather like a high quality car, sit down ,log in and the controls are set to your preferences. This allows both left hand and right hand people the same degree of control. Through the years I have had the experience of having to try to fly with two hand controlllers and work a 7 function arm from one small console, let alone sonar ,profilers -pan + tilt etc, now in the day and age of computer game technology we should be able to pilot the vehicle from the galley.
Things to come,I guess. Have fun Polo.

[Author]

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