Take a pay cut or not??

[Scott Beveridge]

Upon reflection, its all our own fault. We should have left these "men" on the winch !!!!

Indeed ROVSKI, indeed!!!!! Just a quick question (in which we could all see in the ROV Rates thread). What’s your figure in percentage of rates cut in the N. Sea over the past year and a half? I make it approx. 35%……

[ROVSKI]

I couldn’t say with any degree of accuracy as no longer keep in contact with Agencies that pay in once great British pounds. The pound has fallen 25 % recently against other currencies (that is against a basket of world currencies) so that was enough for me to move on to greener pastures. If you multiply that be these self imposed discounts you get the real picture.
At the risk of sounding like Victor Meldrew, I don’t believe it. I was working offshore as a sparky when I got my first start as a trainee so was on a good wage 15 odd years ago anyway. It wasn’t boom times but I managed to get a start at 195 pounds a day just five pounds below the rate of the old salts. It was a four man team (per shift) and I realized that the knowledge shared with me by the likes of Phil Telford (thanks mate) was a gift. I appreciated everything that was taught to me. I happily got the teas in, swept up, counted nuts and bolts and any other job that the experienced men avoided. I tried to keep my trap shut, listened learned and got my round in at the bar. I probably said thank you too much but that’s me.
Move forward five years during the cable laying boom, we were flooded with trainees, most of them an ungrateful lot that didn’t appreciated the we (contractors) by sharing our knowledge were giving them the keys to the kingdom. We were training them to compete with us at a discount rate. They believed the boom without end bullshi#t, envisioned their fast track careers and leveraged themselves right up. What a surprise for them when the bubble burst. We now had an oversupply of pilots. Much like we have today.
I had understood the nature of being a contractor and saved my dough. Had a glorious 3 and half years holiday skiing trekking in Nepal and traveling the world,enjoying my life. The whole point of getting into ROV in the first place.
These young bulls that have flooded into the industry in the last five years or so are much the same and have not really understood the boom bust cycle. Believed they had the right to be trained up, whilst the older ones were aware that they were slowly and surely building an oversupply of pilots again. Most have them lived right up to the limit of their credit. It all about me and I want it now. Not understanding when the sh#t comes down you better be ready.
Well the tide has turned. We are flooded with pilots. Many of them excellent pilots and supervisors but short on life skills. Its I owe I owe its off to work I go. What not much work, I’ll go cheap. We understand needs must. We even kept our traps shut as we carried you and trained you up to be the excellent technicians you have become. Now reading the arrogance of these debt laden me first lot its just to much. Proud to be undercutting rates. If you are needing to work for less after a three month holiday, you have no place being a contractor. Don’t expect us to say thank you for undercutting us. You never said thank you when we gave you the knife that is slitting all our throats, yours included.
I don’t believe it.

[Scott Beveridge]

Bravo ROVSKI ….. one of the best rants I’ve seen on here (no eloquence needed in this one here James – straight to the windpipe!!!).

So when some fat adult (who may have been in the industry less than ones self) says he’s appalled at such and such a supv. for giving his mate, sibling, or person from his missuses (or anothers) loins, too much work (I’m not making this up…) and NRB’s said supv. (good riddance…)… and blah, de-dah, dee effin blah…

Yes, I know we’re getting off topic here… Why undercut???

I can’t say it better than has been just said by ROVSKI. I’ve got a little bit of time left before I (thankfully) get out – youngsters behave and beware!

another way to look at this fiasco is this… Once out of the biz’, I could change light bulbs and the likes of that on a call out basis for exorbitant rates as the "generations" nowadays and soon to be will not be able to do such menial tasks as they never took the time to do so.

[Andy Shiers]

Here , Here 🙂
One point to mention………………. This has not got everything to do with "Young Bucks" But Newbies as a whole 😯
Most of the people on here are not necessarily young but green !
"I fancied a change in occupation and ROVing looked too enticing for me , Big Bucks too 🙂 "
" I put all my severance pay into a ROV school and now I’m desperate ! " 😯
Or How about ………..
I have just come out of the forces and I have a trade and done a ROV course , How do I get a job ? I have tried contacting the agencies as the ROV companies are not responding!" ( Does that not ring a little bell in the grey matter ! Are you that Naive 😯 that it could mean or it DOES mean there is no work available for trainees at this juncture !)
Do these people ( even after looking at this website prior to "getting into this ‘lucrative business’ ) ever read properly ?
Despite everything which has been said on this website by the likes of Me James , Scott and plenty others , Certain people on here who I will not mention but know who they are give what they feel is expert advice even though they have only been in the the industry a couple of years ! I say a couple but that is not strictly true they came on here maybe four years ago but did not actually get a job offshore for long periods…………….. Because there was NO WORK for them then ! 😯
And now they feel they can justify going low on the rates …….. to put food on the table 😕
Yes , I am ranting and I usually do on here due to frustration at the idiotic way some people go about things !
I love this Industry , I enjoy what I do and I have been in this Indusrty all my life ! I have diversified within it to "Go with the times" and due to Oil slumps but I have Never had a pay cut ! And I will not take one and people who know me also know that I am worth it and I also admit that I am somewhat arrogant because of it. But you only have to have a brain of an Ant to realise that this Industry Fluctuates like a womans Hormones and you work when you need to and reap the harvest in the cold months. Old wise words …….. " Don’t be a Grasshopper " 😯

[James McLauchlan]

I’m guessing this is probably due to the more recent development of the ‘buy now pay later’ culture that’s screwing all this up….. borrow, borrow, borrow, mortgage, new cars, big boys toys, etc. and when the downturn comes they are overstretched and resort to desperate measures. That’s starting to show now judging by some of the posts we are seeing. Mother nature is cruel at times and will ‘cull’ mercilessly by natural selection. Often it is for the greater good 😉

In the UK, North Sea, the main subsea season runs from April/May to Sep Oct. That’s it!! Surely these people know that? (Assuming they are UK based that is).

So, you should expect to be off from Oct to April. That’s an easy 5 month break no matter how you do the numbers. The only other way to boost income is work overseas for a trip or two during the winter to add to the slush fund. Some do, some don’t. Either way nobody should accept lower rates the following year. The price of oil doesn’t justify it.. so how can you?

When the industry goes a little quiet you can easily expect to see this amount of time off as the norm, history has proven that over and over and no matter how clever you think you may be it will never change.
It’s been said here often enough and yet here we have people starting to plead poverty after a couple of months off over the winter. They have got it wrong and need to look for a more stable industry if they think work will be available for 9-10 moths of the year.

You should not ‘expect’ to be working before March or April in the North Sea.
If you try to get work by undercutting earlier in the year, then that will do nothing other than depress the rates for the rest when the main season kicks in.. as the season kicks off the first calls people start getting will be based on the crap rate you accepted a month or so earlier.

The divers have it right. Because of the ODIA the rates are set (as are they in Norway and Oz)… so there is no opportunity for those that are running out of money, through their own shit planning, to screw with the system and put one over on their work colleagues who plan more carefully.

regards
James Mc

[liddelljohn]

one of the pilots i was working with last year was boasting on and on about his New BMW M5 and his new Toshiba Qausmio £3000 laptop at the same time complaining about his crippling mortgage and credit card debts , over the winter he has had the BMW repossesed and is hanging onto his house by his teeth …he is desperate for work and will probably go out for a pittance just to stay afloat.

What a damn idiot ….but there are lots of them.

[Scott Beveridge]

Work colleagues who plan more carefully…. has a nice ring to it….

[senior]

Again, I work to live and not live to work, I don’t undercut anyone and never will, I just use the grey matter and get the rounds in!.
I class myself as a newbie to the ROV game , but I ain’t cutting my own throat or anyone else’s just because I’ve not been savvy with the money .

All for one and one for all

Great thread lads

[James McLauchlan]

It appears that STR Recruitment have asked people to take a £50 cut.

[Scott Beveridge]

WHAT!!!!!??? They want to pay only 550 – 600 USD??? WT effin’ F??????? When is this shit gonna slow down or stop???? Yes… it’s me again management-types (using the word management VERY loosely)!!!!

I take back what I said about STR on another thread (Agencies Requiring Slaves thread)…. James, please consider renaming that thread to the former…..

[deepseacon]

Well STR Recruitment agency paid one guy on a Job i was on last year
260 GBP and another guy from another agency same job was getting
360 GBP both guys had same time offshore less than 2 years.
Both could only be classed a ROV Pilot Technicians so who is making the money what was the charge rate i am sure STR made more on the
260 GBP placement. Thats there Business but best to use the Agents who mainly deal with the Position you wish to work in Specialist ROV Agents and not just a Recruitment agent who is bidding to get work a principle of saving the company money you should work for a reasonable rate compared with other positions offshore.

The recruitment Agents are just trying hard to get there Bonus.

.

Use an agent who is willing to Ask for the rate you work at or more not one who is asking you to take 50 GBP cut. Also they dont have much work anyway those agents and you are wasting your time with many of them.
.

[James McLauchlan]

It’s so good to see people willing to post such information. For so long people have been under pressure to not reveal facts about rates and conditions. Our industry is shrouded by this kind secrecy that never benefits freelancers. I remember UKPS sending out job information that clearly said… ‘do not discuss your rate with others’. I have the original documents on headed paper to prove the fact. What’s that all about? This suits nobody other than the companies.

I wholeheartedly support the ‘expose’ that deepseacon presented. If more people would post openly like that less people would be shafted.

regards
James Mc

[Andy Shiers]

Yeah , How about another thread then James . 👿
Name and shame the Muppet agencies sending out trainees !
I hope they go Bankrupt 😈
That will bump the rates up ! 😈

[Scott Beveridge]

Lost,

Yep, kinda like a "reverse black-ball list" that sounds very possible…..

[rovnumpty]

I think Deepseacon may have hit part of the problem squarely on the head.

The number of agencies now touting ROV work.

I remember when there were only about 4 or 5 specialist ROV agencies, and you had a fair idea if the skill level of whoever was coming out by which Agency they worked for.

Anyone remember having to be recommended to UKPS by someone already working for them?

Now it seems the companies will use any agency, as long as the price is right.

Who’s responsibilty is it if the job actually gets done or not? Not the HR depratments.

[Author]

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