Take a pay cut or not??

[Micbeth]

From reading this thread I get the impression that one of the main factors in pay cuts being unacceptable in this period of the North Atlantic economic crisis is that, apart from our living conditions being eroded, companies are being perceived as profiteering as a result. Please shoot me down if I’ve mis-interpreted.

There is also the call that any pay cuts are unnacceptable, no matter the circumstances.

But what about this scenario:

You have been working for a company that has been passing on the fruits of the boom times and you have been working for a day rate above what is offered almost everywhere else. Say like £600 per day as a sub-eng and supervisor rate appropriately higher and have had an excess of days on offer for the last couple of years. Then this year the company states that the good times are over for them for a while and they only have a few minor contracts on the go and whatever they can pick up on the spot market and the rates they are earning on these breadcrumbs are down compared to previous years. As a consequence they ask you to take a 10% cut in your own pay and also say that the days that you will be required to work will be also reduced. So now you are being offered £540 to go as a sub-eng, down on last year but still extremely good or better in comparison to the rates on offer elsewhere this year or last year.

Would you accept a pay cut under these conditions?

[Angry]

We suffered the same sort of deal with being screwed over for money by the oil companies in Australia.
UNTIL WE GOT ORGANISED WITH OUR MUA UNION

[HelpMaBoab]

Jeezypeeps 😯

£600 per day as a sub eng??? maybe Oz or are you speaking hypothetically.

ISS were always up there with the rates (UK based) and their Supv rate has not changed for 2 seasons ie @ £420 per day.

Accross the UK offshore industry the contractors with Wood group, Petrofac etc all have taken a pay cut of between 7.5% & 15%, (With the Unoins blessing),
So it is not just the ROV section which is suffering.

But, to take a short term pay cut to keep some sort of cashflow coming in must surely be down to an individuals personal circumstances. I know a couple of UK based guys who have not had a peep of any work for 4 months.

During this downturn even if we were Unoinised the likelyhood we would have been told that we were taking a paycut.

Another thing to consider. Not all ROV guys are on sooperstar wages living in a tropical paradise and get paid tax free can have a 6 month buffer in the back pocket.
Until something is sorted about Unoinisation we will always be stuck with supply and demand, so cut the guys a bit of slack who need the cash.

Rates will rise soon, well maybe a bit later than soon.

[Robert Branch]

The lowest dayrate for an ROV sub engineer in Australia is 685 UKPounds per day.Is that too much???….As Ive stated in other messages on here,ROV is one of the lowest paid trades in the offshore oil and gas industry in Australia..WHY??..We are expected to be multi skilled in that we have to fly the ROV which is a skill in itself,and then we are expected to have electronics and mechanical skills to fix the damn thing…In Australia most skilled tradesman will have an assistant who does all dirty work for them offshore,and they are paid more than an ROV pilot/tech..
What the hell is going on here??…Im personally getting out of this industry asap..too many useless donuts with too much mouth in this industry..

[me]

The lowest dayrate for an ROV sub engineer in Australia is 685 UKPounds per day.Is that too much???….As Ive stated in other messages on here,ROV is one of the lowest paid trades in the offshore oil and gas industry in Australia..WHY??..We are expected to be multi skilled in that we have to fly the ROV which is a skill in itself,and then we are expected to have electronics and mechanical skills to fix the damn thing…In Australia most skilled tradesman will have an assistant who does all dirty work for them offshore,and they are paid more than an ROV pilot/tech..
What the hell is going on here??…Im personally getting out of this industry asap..too many useless donuts with too much mouth in this industry..

Have a nice one and good bye 😀

[HelpMaBoab]

£650 in Aus per day for a Sub Eng.

Fair enough for you lot out in never never land!
The rest of us mere mortals have to make do on more modest means.

Oz for all itensive purposes is a closed shop for the vast majority of us….

Could be the high dayrates include an uplift for having to put up with greetin’ faced Australians 😯

And they have the nerve to call us Whinging Poms 😆

[James McLauchlan]

Some good points about cutting some slack but I’m not overly sure I agree with ROV taking a cut if there was an agreement in place in the North Sea.

During this downturn even if we were Unoinised the likelyhood we would have been told that we were taking a paycut.

Like the likelihood of UK the divers being told they are taking a pay cut you mean?

After all. They are in the same downturn. They are unionised. As I write, they are not taking a pay cut in 2010. This is most likely because their rates are reviewed every three years. The last agreement stands from 2009-2012.
I would suggest that this three year cycle helps smooth out the annual ups and downs of the industry. The divers know what they are on for 2010, 2011/2012. The companies know what they will be paying on the wages front when bidding for jobs.. everyone is reasonably happy and things are (in the main) relatively stable.

From: http://www.odia.org.uk/

The Offshore Diving Industry Agreement (ODIA) is a 3-year collective agreement between 7 diving contractor companies and the RMT trade union, governing minimum rates of pay, allowances and health/injury insurance for UK North Sea diving personnel.

Each company is an individual contractor with its own company structures, commercial and operating frameworks, and arrangements to source, engage, deploy and manage its personnel. The signatory company may not necessarily be ‘the employer’, but each recognises the importance of the ODIA as the ‘industry baseline’ for core pay and conditions for UK North Sea diving personnel.

Company signatory members to the agreement are Acergy, Helix Well Ops, Integrated Subsea Services, KD Marine, RBG, Subsea 7 and Technip.

Now look at the ROV side.. It’s a mess!!!
No wonder we are discussing pay cuts before the season has even started!

So, if ROV were unionised in the same union as the divers and on a similar type of ‘three yearly’ frequency for agreement negotiations why would it be any different than what the divers currently enjoy now?

If ROV people accept cuts now to get a job then when a pay rise (might/may) be on offer you need to consider that it will not be a pay rise.. it will simply just bring rates back to the level they have been for the last couple of years. You can bet that the cost of living has gone up in that time though. Nobody is cutting that back are they?

People…. if you are UK based and do not work for 3, 4, 5 or possibly 6 months during the (UK) winter period don’t be surprised. In the UK nobody should ‘expect’ to get work during the winter.
The right to work is owed to nobody during this period.
Even more so now that the option to do a winter hop overseas (without a pre applied for visa) is diminishing. Many have noticed that other countries are enforcing visa requirements for foreigners or insisting on their own nationals making up the offshore work force in their neck of the woods… accept the UK that is, but that is another story.

Cut in pay due to the economic downturn?
Consider this….. Brent crude is currently around $76.39/bbl . Yes, there may be a downturn in demand by industry for energy related consumable, but the offshore industry is is reasonable shape. Does anyone around here really expect BP, Shell or British Gas (for example) to post a loss this year because times are so hard? Personally I think not. They are our industry paymasters and are loaded!!. If they were crying ‘we’re broke’ to the government you might be able to see why the current cuts are being touted but they are clearly rolling in cash! Forum members are of course free to dispute that.

People are seeing how the banks, and various other shore based firms, have screwed up and look at the economic recession as if it has affected every facet of UK industry in the same way….

I’ve hardly seen evidence of the major offshore construction companies crying for government (sorry tax payers) money so what gives?

The agencies (of which there now appears to be hundreds all chasing the same work) and companies will, and are, playing on the land based economic downturn as an excuse to drop wages in an industry that is making huge profits as you read this. Oil at nearly 80 dollars a barrel, coldest shittiest weather in years, huge demand for heating oil and gas, and we are in trouble?? I ask you?

It is winter so it may well be quiet.. winters always are, hasn’t anyone noticed??. Some are quieter than others. The industry has been flooded with so called PTII’s. The schools are still pumping them out like no mans business! We’ve got literally hundreds of agencies undercutting each other, companies (like SS7) trying to boost profits by employing cheap foreign labour and thus adding their own pressure into the fray to reduce rates, and yet people query why we don’t need to get this fixed by working together for an ROV industry agreement in the North Sea?

British gas announced a boost in profits for 2009, construction vessels can’t be built quick enough at present, a good number of new work class ROV systems are rolling off the line, some offshore companies are expanding… so where is the economic downturn in the offshore industry and why should anyone in ROV be taking a pay cut?
Is this supposed pay cut on offer to help keep your favourite trusted agency/company afloat by way of being a loyal ROV tech employee?
I would suggest it’s purely geared to increase the profits of the company and returns to the shareholders (that is, after all, why they are in business). Look at the huge personal gains SS7 management made recently in taking options and selling those shares on the open market no more than a breath later. Some made millions.. each! And you my friend are being asked to take a pay cut?

Right now, to survive, you may have forced yourself to take a cut in an attempt to get out of your self imposed debt.
But you do need to ask why you have found yourself in that position in the first place. Relying on this game to give you regular work is not the way to go.

But please, do not do so under the misapprehension you are doing anyone a favour other than the company if you go out cheap. You will not be doing your future any favours that’s for sure.

If, at the start of each season, accepting pay cuts become the norm (it doesn’t take much to start a trend) then you are playing into the hands of the employers be they agency or ROV co’s and our ROV industry will continue to go down the pan in the longer term.
Currently ROV is having rings run around it by the employers… everyone can see that, but not many want to do anything to prevent it happening.

If I had a pound for each time an OPs manager or an agency has said…. could you do us a favour……..

All I see right now is ROV people doing them a favour and the season hasn’t started!

[James McLauchlan]

Oz for all itensive purposes is a closed shop for the vast majority of us….

Conversely, why is the UK sector an open shop for all nationalities?

Whilst people are thinking about it…. you may wish to mull over these question:

• Why does it appear that the Oz guys are on so called Superstar wages?
• Why are some UK based people struggling to even get the same day rate as last year in the North Sea?
• Why are some people considering taking a pay cut.. when as a diver that is not even possible?

Incidentally.. are any Oz ROV members likely to take cuts this year to get work?

[me]

Guys remember that a lot off the ROVs in Asia is sitting on the beach and do fcuk all, my former company have 4-5 ROVs working that’s all, they have around 15, figure out how many people without work, and this is only 1 company, the red fleet also have a tough time in Asia

[bt]

How many shoreside personnel do you think are taking a pay cut.

I’d say non !!

[Scott Beveridge]

Well Ive been in touch with the MUA and the Australian taxation office here in Australia with regards to all the cheapskate agencies such as Subserv Pro,Rumic etc supplying personell to CTC Marine projects on the cheap for projects carried out in Australia.Iam trying to gather more evidence and they are looking into it…Are there any more Australian ROV personell out there who would like to see something done about this bullshit,or am I the only one…Oh and Im still sat at home after turning down agency work,and I will continue to sit at home unless Iam offered the going rate..Hope theres more of you not too mortgaged up willing to do the same…Mind you there are some greedy f–kers out there…

And there’s some of us who are not Aussies who will back you up too…. It ALL works as a ripple effect eventually….

[liddelljohn]

Guys remember that a lot off the ROVs in Asia is sitting on the beach and do fcuk all, my former company have 4-5 ROVs working that’s all, they have around 15, figure out how many people without work, and this is only 1 company, the red fleet also have a tough time in Asia

work was plenty

This is true in 2008 every ROV is Asia was being utilised and ROV staff were in short supply ….but last 18 months ROVs are sitting idle all over Asia, and work has been very patchy ………however the pressure of subsea maintenance and project backlogs will make the situation better this year and next.And remember there is a lot of new kit that was delivered to Asia vessels and ROVs just as the downturn hit all been idle most of last year.

[Scott Beveridge]

How many shoreside personnel do you think are taking a pay cut.

I’d say non !!

AND if anything, they probably gave themselves bonuses for sitting around the orifice or on the beach. Kinda like a few other unscrupulous industries that actually made the news….

[Robert Branch]

Last job I was on in Australia….Air divers who carried out stinger checks on a daily basis and thats all they did were being paid 1500 AUD per day..The supervisor was being paid 2000 AUD per day….
I wouldnt get out of bed for these useless UK ageny rates and the sooner they all go under and out of business the better…and I do think this will happen sooner rather than later..

[Joel]

So how do you equate what you do to a diver then??, surely you are not comparing your job or pay scale to a diver. 🙄 🙄

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