Contracts

[Brendan]

" This position is offered on a Contract basis so specific working hours or duration may change at any time depending on Client needs. "

Does this mean that you only get paid for hours offshore while actually working with rov system and that if the rov can’t go to work say for weather reasons you could be stuck on a boat and not be getting paid?

[James McLauchlan]

No!

When you are on a day rate you are paid for each day you are under contract. If you are down on weather, the ROV is off hire, the vessel is in transit, or whatever.. it makes no difference.

My interpretation of the statement you quoted is as follows…

Shift hours can vary a little, you may be switched from nights to days, or visa versa. The duration of the job is not set in stone but the day rate paid to you will remain the same in all instances.

[Craig Thorngren]

Bren,

I would also be careful of the wording "duration may change". That’s a nice way of saying "if you do a good job and finish the job early, we reserve the right to terminate the contract with no bonus being paid for doing a good job and completing it ahead of schedule".

I would have a guaranteed minimum number of paid days clause added to your contract… There’s not much worse than going out on a job expecting/planning to get paid for 30 days work and have the conract finished inside of a week (and then only get a weeks pay…).

Chief

[Brendan]

Sound lads, Thanks

[James McLauchlan]

Chief

I would suggest that in the main a PT working (supplying just themselves) for a mainstream ROV company/Agency would never get:

A) A bonus if the job ends early
B) A ‘minimum days ‘clause approved for any contract.

[me]

Bren,

I would also be careful of the wording "duration may change". That’s a nice way of saying "if you do a good job and finish the job early, we reserve the right to terminate the contract with no bonus being paid for doing a good job and completing it ahead of schedule".

I would have a guaranteed minimum number of paid days clause added to your contract… There’s not much worse than going out on a job expecting/planning to get paid for 30 days work and have the conract finished inside of a week (and then only get a weeks pay…).

Chief

HI
Never heard about this before, you dont tell the agency you want so many days, have you tried it??

[Adriaan Grobler]

You are right ME.
What are they going to do with you if the job finishes in a week instead of three. Keep you sitting on your @ss until the days are up? Never heard of it and won’t make my name @ss trying to insist on it either. It’s just part and parcel of our chosen profession.

[Craig Thorngren]

Every contract my company issues/signs has several unique clauses. The first is a minimum payment due. This is where we achieve our minimum days. If you control the pace of the work and complete it early, you still get the agreed upon amount of money. If someone else controls the pace of the work (lets say your just observing divers working…), it isn’t fair to you or the people you’ve hired if they get done in 4 days what was supposed to be a 2 week job. They might very well have missed out on other opportunities because they were expecting to be on the job for two weeks + travel.

We also guarantee our work. If we don’t deliver the client only pays expenses (that’s travel, meals, accomodations and communications). It’s a very strong incentive to succeed or come up with innovative idea’s to complete a job.

ME- You can negotiate what ever you like with an agency. My pay scales are base on a 40 hour work week, that’s 5 8 hour days. If the work day exceeds 10 hours than everything after 8 is time and a h half. You can see them here: http://www.submergedrecovery.com/pricing.html

Keep having fun

Agrob- it’s only par and parcel if you accept it. Feel free to accept it or just discard it. It is what it is. I was trying to offer Bren some small words of advice.

Chief

[me]

Hi
OK whatever you say but it must be the only bodyshop you have worked for, i have never heard of them anyway, you try any other bodyshop and then come back and tell me what they say to you, 8 hours a day 5 days a week, what about offshore 24/7 have you heard about that??

[Craig Thorngren]

what about offshore 24/7 have you heard about that??

Sure I have. I’ve just come back from a little stint in the gulf. Just like I said before, in a 12 hour work day, (most off shore jobs are 12 on 12 off for 28 or 30 days) your getting 4 hours of over time a day. Once you’ve accumulated 40 hours in a week, everything is time and a half after that for the remainder of the week.

It’s not the only "bodyshop" as you put it that I’ve ever worked for, but it is the only one I’ve owned and can call all the shots 😀

Chief

[Mark DuPriest]

Only the USA uses a 40 hr work week with 44 hr’s overtime schedule for a full offshore work week. Overtime paid accordingly. US law requires this.

The rest of the world is a day rate based on 12 hr’s. Overtime is not paid.

According to what I know and in my experience.

[luckyjim37]

The prices on your site are personnel rates you charge I assume?

How do them rates compare to what you actually pay the staff working for you?

It seems to me that the rookie who came on with a basic contract question is being bombarded with irrelevant information based on legislation from the other side of the pond.

From experience of dealing with agencies and companies from both sides of the desk the basic thing in the UK is the client has a budget, he tries to use as little of it as possible. The agency try and fill the position, whilst retaining as much of the agreed price as possible and the ROV guy at the end of the chain tries his best to get he rates pushed up to what he wants which may be more then he actually expects.

The thing I would advise to read properly on your contract are things like rates during courses and travel day rates as these do vary widely. The other big thing is stuff like PPE. One company offered me a job years ago where you had to buy your own but part of your day rate went toward this cost.

Also and this is the best advice. Be aware of advice given. Always check the information you have been given and if you are unsure of what something on your contract means ask here for sure but also ask the HR department who is giving you the contract and check the information matches. If not then someone has got it wrong and you should check again. Companies/agencies will advise in there own best interests information given on forums is only based on the question asked and my not be correct as something on another page of your contract may make any advice given irrelevant.

[James McLauchlan]

……….The rest of the world is a day rate based on 12 hr’s. Overtime is not paid.

According to what I know and in my experience……

Outside the USA I would suggest this is about the norm.

[Craig Thorngren]

Jim,

Those rates are for an operator and roughly between $50-100K USD of gear. We bring what gear is needed to accomplish the job. Normally we have excess tether, manips and multi-beam sonar.

An operator gets paid $750 for an 8 hour shift if we use the published rates. A trainee will get somewhre around half that.

I don’t think it matters as much about which side of the pond your from as it does which companies you work with. I’ve worked for a Danish company in the UK, a Norwegian company and an Afrikan company (all within the last year or so )and all agreed to those rates. The Nogs even gave me first class air travel.

The one thing I’d agree with is to read the contract and if something doesnt’ make sense, get a second opinion (and not from the company that wrote it up for you…)

Lucas- Your absolutely correct about the 40 hour work week…

Chief

[luckyjim37]

Thanks for the rate info.

The point I was getting at regarding the working hours is as Lucas pointed out. The working hours in the states is set to 40 so anything over is overtime and quite rightly so. However that is not the case for the average ROV guy in the North Sea.

Obviously the rates you have agreed previously within the EEA are set against your companies rate structure and that is how you are hired in. A Norwegian company would not expect or I think accept a UK company set up in the same way as our working hour culture is different to yours.

Without opening a whole new debate the ROV association if it ever gets big enough should look at that to standardise the industry.

The Rookie who is based in the ROI in this case would not be offered a contract by a UK based firm with the conditions you are talking about so although the information you have given is quite correct and I have found it quite informative, I did not realise about the working hour rules in the states, it is of no relevance to the guy’s original question.

[Author]

Posts