Market Saturation

[David]

Hello
Like a lot of guys here, I’m leaving the military and looking at offshore work. I was considering ROVs but I’m picking up on a slightly negative vibe on here for trainees.
The training industry have their eyes set on the resettlement money that armed forces personnel get and promise lots of things that they don’t have to deliver.
Am I right to be wary of ROVs and should I look at rig maintenance as a more realistic option? I’m a navy marine engineer.
I’d appreciate the thoughts of guys with experience – good or bad.
Thanks
Dave

[Ray Shields]

My opinion is that there are a lot of people chasing very few jobs.

As you said, Training Schools like taking money for training, pointing out that there is a skills shortage in the ROV industry, which there is. However, there is no shortage of people wanting to start.

There is a general skills shortage all across the board offshore, and as you will see from messages on here, ROV pay has lagged behind other jobs offshore for some time..

[Dale Large]

I would not recommend ROV. I an ROV supervisor on a Transocean rig and when I hear the amount of money rig personnel make it make me regret taking this offshore rout.

[Roy Simson]

Yes Oh your so right Ray on the rates side of things . They pay Pea Nuts and expect Hard Core Rov Personnel .

I think we should carry out a survey of many guys paid out for a rov course and how many got work !

James , You and many others have said many many times dont waste your money but like Lemmings they keep on paying for a rov course only to find they cant get work .

So for the guys reading this who did a course how many of you found work and how many are still looking and how long have you been looking .

This might help the guys thinking of doing a course .

Raptor

[John doogan]

Just seen this post and had to sign up to reply.
Sounds like your more that qualified to get into the industry and there is plenty work going on so it’s a good time to get in.
I’m working with a few trainees at the moment and from what I hear a lot of guys are snapped up before the course ends, the only guys that struggle are the guys with no relevant experience and even they manage to find work.
I done the course around 7 years ago although I only done the 3 week pilot course, best 3 grand I ever spent.
It seems that a lot of the members on here don’t like to encourage new arrivals to the industry for what ever reason.
I was in your position once and I’m glad I took the jump. Money’s good and the works easy, anyone that says any different is talking crap. I’ve got a nice car, house and lifestyle to show for it.
Don’t let these old farts discourage you, do your research and if you think it’s for you, go for it.

[James McLauchlan]

I’d suggest you choose an offshore industry that pays best and suits what you are looking to get out of life. That may well not be ROV.

I’ve noted that over recent years ROV rates have gradually been losing out to other non technical offshore vocations. Plus ROV PT’s are now being sourced from countries that pay lower wages and have lower costs of living, this is also helping to depress rates globally.

When I was an ROV supervisor we earned more than CSWIP 3.4u inspectors.

Look at what an ROV supervisor earns these days and ask yourself why someone who’s just completed a 2 week CSWIP 3.4u Inspection co-ordnators course (and just qualified as a 3.4u) now earns more than a ROV sup. Then try and convince yourself that ROV (a so called technical trade) is well paid compared to other non technical offshore vocations.
ROV Sup is the top of the ROV food chain. Beyond that upward career advancement is limited due to the narrowing band of options open to you.

IMHO there are currently way too many new starts flooding the market chasing too few ROV jobs. The ROV industry and training within the industry is largely unregulated, so the situation will not change in the foreseeable future.
Yes, the IMCA offers training guidelines, but lets not forget the International Marine Contractors Association is a PRIVATE subscription based association not a government body. It comprises contractors that are more than happy to see a plentiful supply of low paid ROV crews on the market. Right now that’s what they are getting.

I can’t recall what an Air diver is on in the North Sea these days.. I’ll stab a guess at GBP800/day on deck.. as a non technical vocation that far outstrips an ROV Tech by a good margin (probably about double!)! I was a diver, I still work on diving vessels… these days the vocation is probably safer than truck driving so please, nobody pull the dangerous job card by way of justifying divers rates! If you think that way you are missing the point entirely.

I would also suggest that you don’t listen to overly opinionated people that have little or no clue and have only been established in the industry a few short years during a boom period (project wise) and think everything is hunky dory. For every one person that pipes up on here and says ROV industry is great and healthy there is a much larger silent group behind the scenes that have been fleeced and fallen by the wayside.

The ROV industry is very busy at present, but the training establishments have been as equally as busy pumping out new starts/hopefuls, many of them ill equipped to make it in the ROV game. The market is saturated with inexperienced people willing to work for low wages. I noted one guy from South Africa suggest that they might pay their own flights to get a job!
The inexperience is is starting to manifest itself offshore with with a number ROV crews offshore making basic piloting/operational errors and costing hours of lost downtime & equipment damage.

I offer the above advice with a totally unbiased opinion as I no longer hold an ROV position, although I do still work offshore on ROV related projects. This means I have no vested interested or protectionist reasons for encouraging or discouraging people from joining the ROV industry.
Take or leave it is basically what I am saying. Would I start out in ROV now given the choice? Nope! I’d go rig based. 2 weeks on/2 weeks off, good rates of pay and conditions. Unlike ROV these days.

I’d be interested to read some defensive counter opinions though.

[Bacaruda]

Senior Subsea Engineers
AA000046/International Oil & Gas/United States/$13,000 – $17,200 per month

Our client requires Senior Subsea Engineers for international projects. The successful candidate must have strong experience with BOP and MUX systems.
Company description

Our client is the world’s largest offshore drilling contractor, provides the most versatile fleet of mobile offshore drilling units to help customers find and develop oil and natural gas reserves. Building on more than 50 years of experience with the highest specification rigs, our client’s 18,700 employees are focused on safety and premier offshore drilling performance.

I would go this route if I had my time again !!!

[John Bridgett]

Yes Oh your so right Ray on the rates side of things . They pay Pea Nuts and expect Hard Core Rov Personnel .

I think we should carry out a survey of many guys paid out for a rov course and how many got work !

James , You and many others have said many many times dont waste your money but like Lemmings they keep on paying for a rov course only to find they cant get work .

So for the guys reading this who did a course how many of you found work and how many are still looking and how long have you been looking .

This might help the guys thinking of doing a course .

Raptor

Hi Raptor,
I completed a 3 week course at The Underwater Centre in mid August this year, I sent out in excess of 400 CV’s, had 5 interviews and offerred 4 jobs, 1 of the jobs was whilst I was still on the course. That said I did have very relevant skill set, electronics, electrical, hydraulics and not bad with a set of spanners, adding to that a Private Pilots License and flying model aircraft I’m sure it all helped. I am now employed by a company and off on my first actual job on Wednesday, I started with them at the mid October and was treated to another week at TUC which was great.

I spent a lot of money having done BOSIET, OLF, Meds, MIST etc at my expense, was it worth it? my gut feeling says a resounding yes.

J

[Ray Shields]

I completed a 3 week course at The Underwater Centre in mid August this year, I sent out in excess of 400 CV’s, had 5 interviews and offerred 4 jobs, 1 of the jobs was whilst I was still on the course. That said I did have very relevant skill set, electronics, electrical, hydraulics and not bad with a set of spanners, adding to that a Private Pilots License and flying model aircraft I’m sure it all helped. I am now employed by a company and off on my first actual job on Wednesday, I started with them at the mid October and was treated to another week at TUC which was great.

I spent a lot of money having done BOSIET, OLF, Meds, MIST etc at my expense, was it worth it? my gut feeling says a resounding yes.

You see that even though you had done the course, once employed you were sent – on the course. I have been saying for sometime, companies always look at experience and qualifications first, everything else is secondary.

I believe that you would have got a job on your skillset WITHOUT having done the MIST, BOSIET, training course etc. Companies are used to having to put employees on these courses, most of the time, they are just normal running costs, many people waste all their money getting all of these before even trying applying for a job.

Good luck on the first trip, I’m assuming it will be Saltire, Symphony or similar as most trainees are sent on the boats to start with 🙂 Mainly because they are our boats and can cope with additional/new people as the crews are much bigger.

[John Bridgett]

You see that even though you had done the course, once employed you were sent – on the course. I have been saying for sometime, companies always look at experience and qualifications first, everything else is secondary.

To be absolutely fair, I did learn quite a bit on the 3 week course that I funded and I’m glad I did it. With Fugro it was 1 week at Fort William and it was all flying, it didn’t have anywhere near the depth that we went into on the 3 week course.

I believe that you would have got a job on your skillset WITHOUT having done the MIST, BOSIET, training course etc.

You may be right BUT the way I looked at it was that I’m the wrong age (57) and I’d spent 18 months applying for jobs that I was well qualified for in IT Network Management and never even got an interview. In my mind it was purely down to age and I was pretty sure this area of work would be the same. I needed something to give me a slight edge over the other applicants and I felt being ready to go may just do the trick. I was oferred work by a couple of agencies as well as job offers from companies so it seems to have worked.

Companies are used to having to put employees on these courses, most of the time, they are just normal running costs, many people waste all their money getting all of these before even trying applying for a job.

Agreed

Good luck on the first trip, I’m assuming it will be Saltire, Symphony or similar as most trainees are sent on the boats to start with 🙂 Mainly because they are our boats and can cope with additional/new people as the crews are much bigger.

I was hoping to be on a vessel rather than a platform, I’ve been on platforms in the past and it avoids being wedged into a helicopter!

J

[Norwegian_Dude]

Thought I just add some POSITIVE experience about ROV training courses as most of the guys here spit on.

Did mine 5 weeks course in Norway back in 2008 where the market went sour pretty fast after the course. Two of us was already booked before the course was finished….. I got my first ROV trainee job one month after the course ended. One of the guys we lost track off and the other two had work within 6 month after the course. And yes, that was in a time where the market was rotten as opposed to now!

Sure, most of us had a decent back ground, but in the company I now work we just took on a new trainee fresh from the ROV course that previously worked as a medic. I would say having a good attitude and always being willing to learn is more important than thinking you are the expert and showing a bad attitude. People offshore want to teach good people with a genuine urge to learn and listen.

Sure you can get work without training courses as well if you have a decent tech background, but I would say the ROV training courses are well worth the money as long as your remember that you are NOT an ROV Pilot after the course. You are still a trainee…

Cheers
ND

[John Bridgett]

Thought I just add some POSITIVE experience about ROV training courses as most of the guys here spit on.

Did mine 5 weeks course in Norway back in 2008 where the market went sour pretty fast after the course. Two of us was already booked before the course was finished….. I got my first ROV trainee job one month after the course ended. One of the guys we lost track off and the other two had work within 6 month after the course. And yes, that was in a time where the market was rotten as opposed to now!

Sure, most of us had a decent back ground, but in the company I now work we just took on a new trainee fresh from the ROV course that previously worked as a medic. I would say having a good attitude and always being willing to learn is more important than thinking you are the expert and showing a bad attitude. People offshore want to teach good people with a genuine urge to learn and listen.

Sure you can get work without training courses as well if you have a decent tech background, but I would say the ROV training courses are well worth the money as long as your remember that you are NOT an ROV Pilot after the course. You are still a trainee…

Cheers
ND

I couldn’t agree more.

[Author]

Posts