Multi tasking

[sedco]

You’d think rates would be getting better as oil approches $100/barrel………………………but

http://www.subservpro.com/jobs.php?id=CHay042016

We are currently looking for a Diver/ ROV Pilot, ……….Blah, blah, blah ………………………………………..

Day rate – 340USD

A diver and a rov pilot all for $340 a day.

BLAH

[Craig Thorngren]

The pay isn’t the issue, it’s the location…

As far as the pay goes, looking at what your expected to do on this particular job, the pay is pretty good.

I think a lot of personnel are over estimating their own value in regards to pay. Just because you received XX amount per day last year, doesn’t mean you should get that much and then a little extra this year. If your value to the company goes down, so does your pay… They’ll have no problem finding good personnel who want to work apply for this job.

Chief

[Spacer]

I think pay is the issue. Goes hand in hand with location. I’m not a diver and not familiar with divers pay but In this case, They would have to more than double the offer to go there.

[marley]

Chief, are you for real, please God let this be a wind up…….this industry is head south way to quick…..its time to hot rush the IROVA and also the other forbidden word…*nion. 😯

[Craig Thorngren]

Marley,

It’s not a wind up, just a simple observation and I’m getting sick of listening to people whine about not getting paid enough for a given job because they got more money for it last year.

Play devils advocate… If you were doing the hiring, and you could pay person "A" $500 a day or person "B" $400 a day (and they both met the minimum requirements for the job) who would you hire? You’d hire person "B".

I mean to stay in the game I’ve had to take almost a 20% cut by some companies. Why, because of competition. It’s that simple…

Some people just don’t realize that they aren’t worth as much today as they were yesterday…

Chief

[Scott Beveridge]

The pay isn’t the issue, it’s the location…

As far as the pay goes, looking at what your expected to do on this particular job, the pay is pretty good.

I think a lot of personnel are over estimating their own value in regards to pay. Just because you received XX amount per day last year, doesn’t mean you should get that much and then a little extra this year. If your value to the company goes down, so does your pay… They’ll have no problem finding good personnel who want to work apply for this job.

Chief

Chief,

And what about the guys who ARE worth the "proper" pay and the companies (most of them) that are trying to squeeze the pay???? G-R-E-E-D and annual bonuses…

[Harry]

I personally have worked in Yemen.

$340 would not get me on the plane.

The rate is what people are prepared to go out at, if no one goes they will raise the rate until someone does. Obviously "Chief" is in the business and doesn’t care if his people are "minimum" quality trained and little experience or can offer many years of experience and associated skills. He needs to do this to stay in the market.

There are however many companies that over years of trial and error (losses$ due to mistakes and lack of knowledge) have realised it is better to employ the best people by paying the best rates to get the best job done. This usually ensures the company’s long term survival.

Although I do agree with the "Chief" in that the rates are not automatically raised each year, they are market driven.

Everyones expectations vary, but many of us have been thru the cycle a few times and know that you always go for the max because when there is no work the company that you were faithful to by working at a lower rate than the market will also stop paying you.

[Craig Thorngren]

Scott,

You say the companies are being greedy for trying to keep costs as low as possible, but what if we reversed it and look at it as the prospect is the greedy one who keeps wanting more and more money. It all depends on how you look at it. The proper pay is what the client is willing to pay. If they want to hire folks that can do a job but maybe don’t have as much experience, that’s up to them. Maybe if the folks they hire screw things up, the client comes back for more experienced people. I guess I just haven’t seen all the gloom and doom that many folks predicted would befall some of these companies and their systems if they hired lowered paid personnel. I’m sure there have been some loses, but then again there have been loses with some very senior and highly qualified folks also…

IW- Actually I do care greatly how well qualified people are that I hire… That being said, I’m the one who decides and defines what "qualified" is or means, not some union or other organisation. I think there lies the crux of the problem is everyone is saying "I’m a supervisor" pay me as such when in reality they couldn’t lead a group of girl scouts to the museum. I mean $10K a month is good money to an awful lot of people and yet people want to belittle folks for taking it. Heck they can pay back all that training they got from just about any of the schools in the first 15 days of work. 😯

Chief

[Scott Beveridge]

Scott,

You say the companies are being greedy for trying to keep costs as low as possible, but what if we reversed it and look at it as the prospect is the greedy one who keeps wanting more and more money. It all depends on how you look at it. The proper pay is what the client is willing to pay. If they want to hire folks that can do a job but maybe don’t have as much experience, that’s up to them. Maybe if the folks they hire screw things up, the client comes back for more experienced people. I guess I just haven’t seen all the gloom and doom that many folks predicted would befall some of these companies and their systems if they hired lowered paid personnel. I’m sure there have been some loses, but then again there have been loses with some very senior and highly qualified folks also…

IW- Actually I do care greatly how well qualified people are that I hire… That being said, I’m the one who decides and defines what "qualified" is or means, not some union or other organisation. I think there lies the crux of the problem is everyone is saying "I’m a supervisor" pay me as such when in reality they couldn’t lead a group of girl scouts to the museum. I mean $10K a month is good money to an awful lot of people and yet people want to belittle folks for taking it. Heck they can pay back all that training they got from just about any of the schools in the first 15 days of work. 😯

Chief

Chief,

While I agree with most of what you have said above, the majority of operating companies do in fact, want to pay a (for example) a supv. with 20 – 30 yrs. experience the same wage as a 5 yr. expert. Granted, there are some 20 – 30 yr. plonkers out there but (once again) what of the guys who are not plonkers and actually worth the amount they ask for??? Maybe someone should make up a standardized pay chart with amounts of experience, training, and different vehicle experience. The chart could be used as a "guideline" and would have fine increments (I.E.: say… $10 – 20 increments. Fair is fair. YuniOns won’t solve the problem either…. You don’t see onshore folks having this problem, do you? Regular pay raises are the norm.

[Harry]

Not to enter into a pissing match, BUT, a trade like hydraulics or electronics which in most peoples opinion is a basic requirement to be a work class and up type ROV pilot/tech would take a few more than 15 days to recover the costs. Most people can be taught flying and operations without a "Rov Training Course".Try and teach them electronics theory offshore? The training schools themselves are a part of the problem, promising people top rates are available immediately and instant promotions with a piece of paper only.

A person may be self titled as supervisor, it would soon come apparent whether they had the skill set required and in if found wanting don’t deserve the pay. And should not have asked for it in the first place. The Chief is right in deciding himself who is qualified.

Maybe that’s why most "good" jobs come by word of mouth and recommendations.

Also 10k a month realistically translates into 5k a month on equal time.

[Scott Beveridge]

Ind.Whore,

Agree as well. "Phone call jobs" are nice but still doesn’t deter from the fact that some plonkers still get jobs in which they should not be on. We’ve all seen it… Only savvy managers can filter the bullshit from the tree.

[DJansen]

Like you say Scotty.. Where else does a newly promoted Supv with 3 yrs exp on one sub on one vessel suddenly command similar pay to a 20 yr vet with experience on a dozen subs on a multitude of vessels in a huge variety of situations.. Free flyer ? Nope, Live boating ? Nope, Semi Sub ? nope, Barge ? Nope, DP ? Nope. Inshore Ops ? Nope, Deep water ? Nope, No vis ? Nope, Pipelay ? Nope. inspection/survey ? Nope. Any other type of sub ? Nope
You a Supervisor ? Nope !

Pay peanuts… Get monkeys ! Luckily for us the major airlines don’t have a similar recruitment policy. Can you see them putting several million dollars worth of assets into the hands of a guy without the relevant experience ? or paying all their guys the same regardless of exp or ability ?

[Andy Shiers]

Then there’s Africa 🙂
You can fly planes in Africa 😀
I find it funny how people still regard the experience as 3 years or 5 years 8)
Average work per year…………. 6 months maybe more or maybe less 8)
This means 1 1/2 years experience or 2 1/2 years experience respectively.
Doesn’t sound alot when you look at it that way…………… does it 😀
" I have over a years experience on spud can inspections there for I am very experienced in everything to do with ROV’s" 😯

[DJansen]

I forgot about Africa.. But guess it doesn’t matter what they pay there as they only have monkeys anyhow. 😆

[Craig Thorngren]

IW- The request was for someone who had experience with a VideoRay ROV. No hydraulics or high voltages… What I was trying to get across was that people who have taken one of the IMCA Certification Courses (not that IMCA is doing the certifying, just the course meets those criteria), they pay around $5K for the course, and they could pay it off with 15 days work.

Scott- I’m not saying some folks aren’t worth what they are asking for. I’ve seen some folks do some amazing flying in unbelievable conditions, but a lot of the times companies don’t need someone that has that many qualifications (i.e. they are over qualified) or that skill set. Most companies are looking for someone who can get the simple jobs done, not the overly complex ones. I was working with a dive company that has a WROV and a full time crew for it (9 personnel). Last year they billed out the ROV for a little over 225 days to customers. The Supervisor told me that they actually did work class work, less than 12 hours the entire year… talk about wasted resources. I mean, if they use the dive tenders on their vessels to manage tether, you could have used a small inspection calss ROV to do more than 99% of their work, which was to observe diving operations, send the video out via satellite and record evertything. I guess the bottom line is that if they need experienced personnel they ar going to pay for it, if they don’t need all that experience, why sould they pay for it?

Greeat Discussion by the way-especially sincince these heated topics ususally end up in a yelling/pissing match.

Chief

[Author]

Posts