Putting some thoughts together

[thomas]

Has anyone any idea approx how many of us rov types are involved in the offshore industry around the world?

Secondly has anyone any idea what percentage of those people regularly look or know of ROVWORLD?

This is nothin sinister guys,Im just trying to put some thoughts together for the benifit of us all and maybe spark some ideas for the future of our industry.

No point in going further at the moment until I have an idea of the figures. 😀

[Keith Jones]

Have a look in the left hand pane and you see how many view this site

[James McLauchlan]

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[James McLauchlan]

This was forwarded to me by email from member: Bushman

According to IMCA Information Note IMCA R 02/10, handed to us by our client last night, there were 3476 ROV personnel (all grades) in August 2009. There were 587 ROV’s working in August 2009.

These figures were taken for a 2 day period in August last year, and does not take into account personnel not working for any reason.

I would scan and download the document, but the internet is absolutely terrible here.

Maybe someone on the beach could find it and post it.

[Scott Beveridge]

And at least another 1500 or so without the "IMCA" toilet… errm… papers

[thomas]

Sorry guys I will be back onshore in a week or so then I would like to hear thoughts on forgetting the RMT who are not interested in us and would like to explore the possibilities of us ………yes just us …..being represented by our nominees to approach companies and try to get some sort of dialog going.I envisage it will take quite a bit of time and discussion but if we dont then nobody will.
I think its worth a discussion guy but please excuse me for the present for keeping my head below the parapit as I have some thoughts to put forward that aint gonna please those who employ us.
I promise that when the time is right I will stand up and be counted

[thomas]

Thanks for the figures guys.

As some kind of starting estimate do you think it would be miles out if we thought of around the 6000 mark for active ROV persons?

The only way forward,(if we want it to go forward), as I see it, is to form together as a collective group in the first instance.ie ROV people who really want to take some control of our pay and conditions.

Until we can form a solid group consisting of the majority of active ROV persons then we will get nowhere.

We are all very aware of how persons in our industry negotiate their own pay and conditions.If these people win good money and conditions then good luck to you ,….but….if you cant get what you want,what can YOU do about it? I think nothing except capitulate or walk.

I propose we bring ourself into the 21st century, and have, at the very least ,a collective of us, who are willing to stand and be counted and not just declare that we are and then run behind and capitulate.

I am not proposing that we get together and withdraw our labour.Far from it, as what I am looking towards, is a fair negotiation with all the companies, and find firstly, a level playing field on pay and conditions, and address the modern trend of certain companies holding a couple of knowlegable guys, and filling the gaps with cheap, unworthy mostly, labour in order to maximise their profits to our degradation.

The only way to get towards that goal ,is to sort out between ourselves, what we actually think is fair and honest pay and conditions, before it can be put forward to anyone.
I will check it here for now, and ask your opinions, on the first and most important point of finding out how many of us are there?

How many of us are willing to come to democratically evolved pay and condition and stand by them?

Anyone who is going forward to negotiate on our behalf, must only go forward in a position of strength .Therefore, our most important goal ,as of now, is to get our eventual proposed negotiators into that position by forming a solid collective.

We….. As a group…..are the only people who are going to do anything to stop the rot.

I hope this is the beginning people as the abilities of a group such as this are far reaching.

[Andy Shiers]

I think 6000 is a bit off to be honest.
3000 worldwide would be more accurate.
Plus wannabes and possiblies 😀 ( And they won’t join anything to jeapordize their income 😕 )
This is one main reason why the RMT does not take us seriously 😕 Not enough revenue generated. It is an elite new industry compared to others. Hence the reason why the rates were good ………………… originally 😕
Unfortunately Too many people are trying to get in to a market which is small. There are not enough companies with enough ROV’s to make a big difference because it is such an Expensive lucrative Industry.

[tc1]

Hmmmm………Watching with interest

[thomas]

oh well guys ,it looks like everyone is happy to carry on as it is at the moment.

[rovnumpty]

Don’t get downhearted justatot.

Most ROV bods are cautious and cynical to the point of retitcence by years of being royally shafted by every man and their dog, so anything new is treated with either contempt or suspicion.

I applaud your efforts, but I think you were on a hiding to nothing from the start.

The biggest issue with any kind of uni0n movement is the fact that most ROV companies now operate on an international basis, whereas uni0n legisaltion is very much country based, with very few cross border agreements, let alone any international agreements.

A concerted effort in the UK might result in beter rates in UK waters, but drive the push to cheaper labour with little uni0n laws elsewhere like W. Africa.

We also have no Unique Selling Point to bargain over. The diver strike of several years ago is always used as an example of what is achievable with Uni0nisation, but they have a USP. Jose Blogs of Manilla can’t be taken off the street and sent out as a Sat Diver as he won’t have the relevant safety tickets. He can be sent offshaore as an ROV bod though with just a cursory medical and a two day survival.

Perhaps the current debacle in the GOM will convince the operators that subsea operations needs an internationaly recognised training ticket the same as crane drivers do.

If it does, we may be in a much better bargaining postition in 5 years or so.

[thomas]

Thanks for the feedback rovnumpty.
I take onboard what you say with regards to unionisation but Im sure ,if we all put our thoughts on some sort of international group of us, then we can control the future of our industry, as opposed to companies willy nilly using us as they think fit and opening another box when they feel like it or reducing our rates to get an edge on their competitors rather than using their equipment,facilities,the skills of their workforce and their track records.
We are an international body right now but we are a fractured international body which I for one can see that if this body was brought together with our rules ,our skill levels,our rates and our say so on which companies can or cannot employ us.
What many people are failing to reflect on, is that we are not a tool that is going to go away. In this industry,we have an increasing responsibility in the tasks we are ask to do and capabilities are being pushed to the point that companies sometimes need to seek our innovative and experienced minds to complete tasks that have never done before.
Yes they can put cheap bums on seats but what if the majority of ROV people were linked together we can say no none of our members will work for that particular company until they join the flat pay and conditions that we as a group think is necessary.
Im sure thre is a way forward to create an international body as opposed to a country by country union.
Im not so sure the word union should come into it I see in the future some form of international body of ROV people telling companies and bodies like IMCA for instance what we deem to be correct and us deciding the level of training one requires to become part of us which would aleviate the need for us to keep putting our hands in our pockets to feed parasitic so called training schools dreaming up new courses.We should be telling them what our industry requires and not the other way around.
I really do not see an unsurmountable problem in taking control of our own destiny we have the numbers,we have the skills,we have the opportunity,but what we lack is the willingness to do it and the lack of agreed standards to which we will stand.
Im not put off guys,I know we are a suspicious lot but for our future lets look at this and at least try to control ourselves as opposed to others doing it for us.
Make no bones about it guys something has got to happen or we will be pushed from pillar to post by all and sundry.

[thomas]

Done

[tc1]

ok justalot you got my attention.

1. Why do we need to form an association?

2. If we do what power do we have to evolve our industry?

3. If we do whats to stop the companies and IMCA and the training schools saying we are nothing and you cant do anything to change it?

4. We have no idea of how many people are involved in our industry so how can we say we represent the majority?

5. How can we fund this association?

6. How can this association be policed?

7. How much is it gonna cost us?

8. Who is gonna speak for us?

Im sure there a hundred more questions to be asked so how can we speak our minds anonamously,without making our personal views known to others?

I am listenin but give us your views and let us chew on it.

[James McLauchlan]

I’m sure plenty around here will listen to and debate anything if it’s presented in a constructive manner.

I’m therefore watching this thread with interest to see where it leads.

[Author]

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