RMT slams SS7 on pay/conditions through hiring cheap labour

[Anonymous]

James….Its not were you live, its what it says in your passport that determines what you get paid. Probably just as well with the amount of expats living in Thailand and so on.

I actually think if you dont live in the UK then any arguments made against foreign workers here is null and void. The expat crowd contribute nothing to the UK, demand high wages because they are Brits and kick off at the idea of a Filippino working in the UK sector. Yet are free to wonder 99% of the globe taking any job they please…..then moan about how they cant work in Oz

Foreigners taking UK jobs, think there is a call center in Bombay that deals with those questions.

[James McLauchlan]

I actually think if you dont live in the UK then any arguments made against foreign workers here is null and void.

You may need to look at the bigger EU picture (or to be totally correct ‘EA picture’) for your statement to have any credibility.

I don’t live in the UK, but I do live in the EU.

Not only am I entitled to work in the UK (on land or offshore without a work permit) but, as a UK citizen, I am entitled to have my say as far as UK affairs are concerned, of that I am certain.
Therefore, it is your statement that may possibly be null and void.

It is my understanding that any EA citizen is entitled to work in any sector of the EA. Therefore, I cannot see why a non EA citizen would need to be employed by any company in the EA zone for any other reason, other than to produce a better return for it’s investors.
If there were a lack of technical vocational ability, then fair enough. However, there is plenty of technical and operational experience/talent in the EU (EA) to draw on.

In this instance the moral, and potential safety, issues have obviously gone out of the window in favour of pure unadulterated profit, with no thought given to previously reliable long term employees.

I foresee in the future, as a result of present SS7 and other operators actions, the knock on effect being a clamping down, under EU law, on the use of non EA workers in EA offshore sectors. This would be in a similar manner as already happens in the USA and Oz.

Potential short term profits, driven by the small minded dreams of UK company managers, may well prove to create a bigger monster than any of these so called major offshore operators would ever have wished to be party to.

[Scott Beveridge]

Well said James….

I had just replied to another post of RCV …. err… 225’s and the reply (albeit shorter) stated something to the effect of short-termed-tunnel-vision-economics.

[DJansen]

I think the point being missed is the fact that it’s not realy about foriegn workers.. It’s about sub standard pay rates..

The Op’s Managers Nirvana of finding competant guys willing to work for peanuts comes around again and again..

I’ve seen it in Asia and in West Arfica..

I’ve been given countless trainees in my time and have been willing to teach any of them as long as they were on the correct rate…

But I wouldn’t waste my time on guys being shafted on some 50 bucks a days scheme..

Now the reason why the ‘Let’s get cheap Asians to do the work’ doesn’t work is simple..

If a guy turns out to be good and can do the job as well as an expat he will very soon be demanding expat level pay.. Or he will go to another company ( Yep you have just lost all the training you gave thim too)

If a guy isn’t much use he may be willing to hang around and work for a low rate but the rest of the team will be reluctant to work with him.. He will soon get a name for being useless and that’s the end..

There have been hundreds of Asian trainees over the years… Indo’s, Chinamen, Singaporeans, Malaysians and Flips too.. But only a small minority stuck it out an turned into decent ROV hands.. There are some really good Singaporean ROV guys… But all of them are on the same rates as expats at the same level..

Any bloke who is any good no matter where he is from will eventually demand equal pay…

No as for expats getting first world rates in third world countries… Do you think that guys would travel half way round the world to get paid less than they would at home. ?? ahahahahahahah….

Companies also seem to prefer local living expats as they don’t cost much to mobillize to the jobsite and are used to the enviroment/food/condition etc..

If SS7 want to bring Flips to the UK to be ROV trainees.. No problem.. BUT they should be paid exactly what a trainee from the UK/EU would be paid… Having seen a fair few Filipino techs in my time I’d say SS7 would soon give up on them if they had to pay them UK wages… a UK lad would be a better choice.

Don’t want to sound racist but there is a reason companies pay for ‘expensive’ expats.. It’s not that expats are really any better.. It’s because the local guys that are as capable/motivated/exerienced as an expat generally aren’t interested in dirty offshore work.. They see it as low class and grubby.. If they have an education and are bright they can usually find much more rewarding work on the beach in an office.. This means that ROV companies looking for cheap labour usually only get the leftovers.. The few good Asian ROV guys aren’t the norm.. they are exception and they are usually one in a hundred..

As for Africans… hahahaha… they havn’t invented the wheel yet so how they gonna fix an ROV… gimme a break

🙄

[DJansen]

Oh and as for SS7… Simple.. Just don’t work for them..

Unfortunately their die-hard "the company loves me wanke*s will hang on getting their salary and eating sh*t sandwiches till they retire..

Why the don’t get some spine and say..’No guys on low pay or we will all leave/refuse to work with them I don’t know..

Grow a pair you pussies !

There is a shortage of experience ROV guys worldwide.. Wonder how effective SS7’s fleet of contruction vessels would be if ROV crews refused to work for them… What they gonna do ? train up a fully Fillipino crew over night… ahahahaha… Like to see that.. They’d better make sure their insurance was paid up… and order a few repalcement subs while you are at it..

[Scott Beveridge]

DJan,

Thx for that last 2 rants… Mirrors my thoughts pretty much.

see next thread: http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=20937#20937

[Anonymous]

James:

In the offshore arena were work permits are not required. Would you be happier to see Latvians, Slovakians, Lithuanians (EU members) taking the jobs other than Philippino lads? The bigger EU picture. Considering the Polish lads are dominating the marine side of things these days. Is it really that simple as saying any EU member is welcome and others are not.

The point is its a global industry and guys work and live all over. The issue is low pay and nothing to do with were people live.

Job protection in the USA? … SS7 happily employs Philippino ROV lads on the Skandi Neptune which works permanatly in the Gulf.

[James McLauchlan]

Would you be happier to see Latvians, Slovakians, Lithuanians (EU members) taking the jobs other than Philippino lads? The bigger EU picture. Considering the Polish lads are dominating the marine side of things these days. Is it really that simple as saying any EU member is welcome and others are not.

If they are EU citizens my perceived happiness has nothing to do with it, it’s EU law and that’s it.

I have no preference over working with any nationality as long as they are legally allowed to work in the UK and are obliged to be paid similar rates as their UK counterparts.
Hence, the idea of ROV and other subsea vocations being included in a subsea agreement with clearly defined employment conditions and rates to be enforced for any subsea worker working in the UK sector. The UK divers do it. So should UK ROV and other subsea related vocations.

Yes, the issue is low pay. That’s what this thread is supposedly all about. The employment of cheap foreign based labour. The word ‘foreign based’ applies as any UK based foreigner would already know what they should be on, pay wise, and would also know that they could not survive (as a UK resident) on the rates SS7 is paying.

Job protection in the USA? … SS7 happily employs Philippino ROV lads on the Skandi Neptune which works permanatly in the Gulf.

They may not be happily employing Filipino ROV lads for that much longer. Read on……

I stand my ground on USA job protection. It is not easy to get a work visa for the USA and it is getting harder.
The US is openly attempting to protect the jobs of their own citizens as a result of the global economic meltdown.
This can be viewed as a US government Federal policy, not just a local Southern states thing.
You can see where this is leading to as they gradually (over the next few years) enforce a recently modified Jones act.
This, in effect, allows for only American built and registered vessels to operate in the Offshore energy sector of the USA, or any areas of the world under US jurisdiction.
You can bet your bottom dollar that those vessels will need to be crewed by US citizens. They had to shelve it’s immediate introduction because the US offshore fleet, and onshore vessel building facilities, are not currently up to taking over the total requirement but I would suggest it will happen within (say) 5 years. So, with regard to the offshore sector US employment policies are very clear to those that bother to read up on such things.

Protect US marine jobs is the message.

That is exactly what we should be doing for UK marine sector jobs.

Skandi Neptune which works permanatly in the Gulf.

Permanent?
Nothing is permanent, especially when it comes to marine activity.
It might be better to say The Skandi Neptune currently works in the Gulf.
The Skandi Neptune, and other foreign boats like it, will be shoved out of US waters eventually. There may be cracks in the employment armour right now, (which short term profit style management, such as that running like SS7, are happy to exploit) but even they will not be able to resist longer term US employment policies being introduced into the marine sector. Anyway, that’ll be no problem to SS7 as they appear not to work with long term management policies.

The point is its a global industry and guys work and live all over. The issue is low pay and nothing to do with were people live.

What? Of course it is to do with where they live! That’s why SS7 are bringing them in. They are on low pay because they live in a cheap country. If they lived in the UK with their families it would be a non starter! Low pay, and where they come, from are definitely connected.

That’s why Indians, Filipinos, Thais, Indonesians, Vietnamese (to name but a few countries) all get crap rates when offshore overseas, whereas UK, Australian, US, Canadian, Norwegian, Dutch, Danish people all get much higher rates of pay.

As a diver working in India, the Indian divers were on an income way lower than our but they were doing exactly they same work (in theory). Why were they on lower pay? Because of where they lived.

[Anonymous]

Fair play. Everyone should get paid according to were they live. Now all those expat’s living in Thailand and cheaper foreign countries please step forward.

It may not be easy to get certain types of USA visa. But it certainly seems easy enough to get Filippino ROV lads them, Croation medics and Polish DP op’s visas. Thats just a fact. If thats the meaning of USA job pretection, then it looks pretty close to the UK. Anyone tried to get a STV Angolan visa recently. Now that is tricky. Your right about the definition of permanent though, nothing is permanent. Not even the ROV good times. The Skandi Neptune isn’t permanent, it just works there…alot.

As for the Jones act, who knows what that will turn into. I predict nothing. Its been shelved for reasons far beyond US ship yard avaliability. They are not going to build themselfs another Thialf, Saipem 7000 or Solitaire anytime soon and there will be more excemptions for specialist construction vessels than you can shake a stick at. So whats the point.

[Scott Beveridge]

Fair play. Everyone should get paid according to were they live. Now all those expat’s living in Thailand and cheaper foreign countries please step forward.

It may not be easy to get certain types of USA visa. But it certainly seems easy enough to get Filippino ROV lads them, Croation medics and Polish DP op’s visas. Thats just a fact. If thats the meaning of USA job pretection, then it looks pretty close to the UK. Anyone tried to get a STV Angolan visa recently. Now that is tricky. Your right about the definition of permanent though, nothing is permanent. Not even the ROV good times. The Skandi Neptune isn’t permanent, it just works there…alot.

As for the Jones act, who knows what that will turn into. I predict nothing. Its been shelved for reasons far beyond US ship yard avaliability. They are not going to build themselfs another Thialf, Saipem 7000 or Solitaire anytime soon and there will be more excemptions for specialist construction vessels than you can shake a stick at. So whats the point.

Several points here… which one are you shaking a big stick at the most?

[James McLauchlan]

Fair play. Everyone should get paid according to were they live. Now all those expat’s living in Thailand and cheaper foreign countries please step forward.

225 🙄

Yet again, for the third time, not very useful input from 225 as far as this thread is concerned.
I will have a sensible discussion with anyone, which is one of the reasons why I started this website in 2000, but am little impressed with such remarks along the lines of the one above.

Each time we try to debate it 225 seems to want to slip a post with the intention of derailing sensible discussion. or trying to annoy somebody. Flippant remarks are out of order and along the lines of some of 225’s other equally useless posts which I warned them about by PM a few days back.

If anyone has a valid reasons to see Filipinos employed in the UK sector, on cheap wages, then state those reason and support them with relevant input, otherwise I suggest you stop posting and simply read.

Sorry folks but that was about the most polite way I could think of to convey my message online.

[Anonymous]

I’m just pointing out that there is more to cheap labour and wages, than simply were you live.

controversial, not helpfull, offensive..?

[iROV]

I’m just pointing out that there is more to cheap labour and wages,

The big corporate companies that want to get rich blind over someone else’s back!?

[Scott Beveridge]

Aptly put iROV….

[rovjockey]

I do live in the UK and I can complain about cheap labour entering the market but I dont believe any amount of complaining or uni@n representation is going to protect anyones job in the long term from being replaced by a cheaper workforce. This trend is being driven by profit minded major oil production companies who are using the current market to drive down contract prices in the tendering stage which in turn forces the contract companies (also profit driven) to look for savings. This will always lead to an influx of cheaper labour to any sector. I dont mind competition from foreign workers but the obvious disparity in pay rates make it impossible for this to be possible. Unfortunatley I can see this drive for cheeper labour continuing untill a point where it starts to affect the profits of the larger oil companies through the time it takes to carry out work or bad media coverage of said companies due to bad saftey records. As for Angola/Brazil/USA you can bet that the decision to have larger percentages of the workforce from the local area is also profit driven through the oil companies (It costs them less to employ these people due to the cost of local wages). Not to sure about this but I bet they are on more than onshore based personell in their own country (Same as most other places).

[Author]

Posts