ROV Job Australia

[Micbeth]

Experienced ROV Shift Supervisor required, to work off the coast of Australia, beginning early December for approx. 1 month duration.

Must hold existing visa, or be able to attain one.

This is unusual because it doesn’t also say Australian national.

Let’s assume Australian nationals are excluded and they only want a person with a visa. This person would be employed and paid by the UK agency (presumably in pounds or US dollars into their non Australian bank account) and not directly by the Australian office of the ROV company. Hence the union negotiated day rate with that company would not apply. So, hypothetically this could be a way of undercutting the day rates in Australia. Similar tricks may apply to any where else that is unionised.

Probably not the case, but it does raise a few points to think about.

[Scott Beveridge]

Experienced ROV Shift Supervisor required, to work off the coast of Australia, beginning early December for approx. 1 month duration.

Must hold existing visa, or be able to attain one.

This is unusual because it doesn’t also say Australian national.

Let’s assume Australian nationals are excluded and they only want a person with a visa. This person would be employed and paid by the UK agency (presumably in pounds or US dollars into their non Australian bank account) and not directly by the Australian office of the ROV company. Hence the union negotiated day rate with that company would not apply. So, hypothetically this could be a way of undercutting the day rates in Australia. Similar tricks may apply to any where else that is unionised.

Probably not the case, but it does raise a few points to think about.

A very good point micbeth…. Anything to keep stomping down the rates – farquers (if it is indeed the case…).

Any of you dudes down under got an idea or have been "abused" by this loop-hole practice?

[James McLauchlan]

I believe the OP is quite right to question as to why an Oz co is looking ROV agency people outwith Oz. Whether this is a scam (on rates) by an Oz based operator or not is yet to be seen, but people must be alert concerning this kind of thing.
Probably worth any Oz guys checking with any people when/if they front up to see what deal they are on and flag any concerns to the MUA.

I am aware of one UK based company that tried to take UK nationals (regular ROV crew) into Oz and pay them as per their current UK contract rate and guaranteed they would pay no more than their usual UK taxes. The offer was any ‘extra’ Oz taxation would be swallowed by the company. Of course when a company makes such a seemingly generous offer you have to start asking why!!

So guess what? People started asking why, and looked into it a little more deeply.

Initially, the idea was sold to the ROV guys onboard by saying they would be no worse off by working in Oz compared to their usual UK take home pay.
The reason was reasonably obvious from the start…. they (company) didn’t want to pay the UK sourced guys Oz union rates so cooked up this ‘super nice’ offer.
When questioned the company admitted that there was a ‘slight’ difference ( in who’s favour we need not ask:roll: ) and rectified the situation.

Are they that short of ROV people in Oz at present?

[Scott Beveridge]

James,

Thanks for putting a "bit" more eloquently than my last post….

I believe that this should be followed up as well (directing this to Aus ROV hands…). Are we "foreigners" coming into Aus and (unknowingly) under-cutting the pay and (inevitably) having your rates cut? 😡 😡

[kangaroo]

It is my understanding that this loophole was now closed, so these agencies will face hefty fines if they are not paying their foreign workers the equivalent wage to an Australian doing the same job:

http://www.visabureau.com/australia/news/30-07-2009/changes-to-australia-temporary-skilled-visas-to-protect-foreign-workers-from-exploitation-says-minister.aspx

http://www.nationalvisas.com.au/blog/australian-news/foreign-workers-to-be-paid-at-market-rates-in-australia/

[James McLauchlan]

It is my understanding that this loophole was now closed, so these agencies will face hefty fines if they are not paying their foreign workers the equivalent wage to an Australian doing the same job….

Having read the info the links took me to…… It looks like the Oz government gives a bit of thought for it’s citizens on the home job front.

Question.
If a foreign ROV person goes to Oz to work offshore in the O & G industry (no land – yard/office based work) do they require a work permit to enter the country?
Do they require a work permit to work offshore in Oz?

In the UK if somebody is entering the country to work offshore there is no requirement for them to have anything other than a visit visa.
No work permit required.
The reason being that if they are working outside the 12 mile limit they are technically in international waters and therefore a work permit cannot be issued by any country.

[luckyjim37]

Surely this is all speculation as the advert did not highlight any dayrate.

Also as I understand from some calculations I did with another ROV guy who had worked in Oz by the time you have done a six week trip on Oz rates you end up not that much better off on the higher day rate due to having to pay Oz tax at a much higher rate than the UK.

As I was led to believe after a couple of weeks down there you are liable to pay tax in Oz where as if you were offshore elsewhere in the world you may not be liable therefore with the elusive SED you would be financially significantly better off.

It appears yet again that there is a thread with a theme based on speculation which I am sure will work its way around to lets all join the OILC.

Yes the Uk could and should do more to protect its workers but since most of the ROV industry appears to live in Thailand that is quite hard to impose. If you are non resident and not paying tax in the UK why should the UK government show an interest in your employment situation

[Anonymous]

I am aware of one UK based company that tried to take UK nationals (regular ROV crew) into Oz and pay them as per their current UK contract rate and guaranteed they would pay no more than their usual UK taxes. The offer was any ‘extra’ Oz taxation would be swallowed by the company. Of course when a company makes such a seemingly generous offer you have to start asking why!!

Subsea 7 send folk to Australia on their regular contracted rate and are even temporarily assigned to the Aussie office while they are their. Most staff contracts require folk to work worldwide. It seems they dont pay less for working in Brazil, Angola, USA or more for working Australia, Norway. Once a work permit/visa has been issued and crew levels agreed. The Aussie unions dont seem that concerned with what foreign, non union member earn, as per Norway these days.

It appears yet again that there is a thread with a theme based on speculation which I am sure will work its way around to lets all join the OILC.

Yes the Uk could and should do more to protect its workers but since most of the ROV industry appears to live in Thailand that is quite hard to impose. If you are non resident and not paying tax in the UK why should the UK government show an interest in your employment situation

I could not agree more

[James McLauchlan]

Surely this is all speculation as the advert did not highlight any dayrate.

I agree entirely – it is pure speculation.

Yes the Uk could and should do more to protect its workers but since most of the ROV industry appears to live in Thailand that is quite hard to impose. If you are non resident and not paying tax in the UK why should the UK government show an interest in your employment situation

Eh? Who, in this thread, is asking the UK government to show an interest in UK citizens that are not resident in the UK and not paying UK tax, or did I miss something?

The least the UK government should do is look at protecting it’s own patch as the Oz government appears to do for it’s own citizens. Read the articles associated the the links provided by kangaroo above. They clearly shows how the Oz government is putting their own citizens ahead of foreigners on the job front. I say job front because there must be a pay off for the country as a result.
aka. The more local people employed on higher rates of pay results in more tax revenue for the country. A point probably not missed by the Oz government at all.

[Micbeth]

It is my understanding that this loophole was now closed, so these agencies will face hefty fines if they are not paying their foreign workers the equivalent wage to an Australian doing the same job:

Those links only give information on 457 visa holders who are sponsored to work in Australia by local companies. The add said that the applicants must have their own visa or be able to arrange one. I’m not sure what other categories of visa there are to arrange by youself but there are things like the work holiday visa, disgruntled ex-migrants who have gone home, people with Australian spouses, etc.

Also as I understand from some calculations I did with another ROV guy who had worked in Oz by the time you have done a six week trip on Oz rates you end up not that much better off on the higher day rate due to having to pay Oz tax at a much higher rate than the UK.

The point of the thread was to point out a way to avoid paying the Australian day rate. I speculated that the person would be employed by the UK agency that advertised the position and paid in pounds or US dollars into their local bank account.

Consider this: As the work contract will be arranged outside Australia, all payments will be made in a non-Australian currency into an overseas account. There will be no paper record in Australia of payment hence there will be no way of enforcing the payment at the going rate as described in Kangaroo’s post.

But I too agree it is entirely speculation. But I thought it would be a good discussion point that may have some relevance. I PM’d the poster of the position asking if Australians were also eligible to apply. I got no response, and as they have not responded here either let’s speculate away to our heart’s content.

[Micbeth]

Question.
If a foreign ROV person goes to Oz to work offshore in the O & G industry (no land – yard/office based work) do they require a work permit to enter the country?
Do they require a work permit to work offshore in Oz?

I believe the answer is yes, but these questions add a further speculative dimension to the discussion.

If someone is employed by a foreign agency and paid in a foreign currency into a foreign bank account, with no local paper trail, what’s to stop them turning up on a tourist visa and lying about the purpose of their visit to immigration? One would like to think that the employing agency and local entity providing the work would have the ethics to check to make sure that the correct visa is in place, but I wouldn’t count on it, based on past events that have occurred in Singapore.

[James McLauchlan]

But I too agree it is entirely speculation. But I thought it would be a good discussion point that may have some relevance. I PM’d the poster of the position asking if Australians were also eligible to apply. I got no response, and as they have not responded here either let’s speculate away to our heart’s content.

It is a worthwhile discussion point. Threads like this do bring up points that may otherwise not be aired.

Speculation (in some parts) or not, it’s been a reasonable discussion so far.

[Scott Beveridge]

PULEEZE bring it on folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is getting to be VERY good – any nay-sayers?????????

James,

Please make this a sticky thread!!!

Dudes down under,

ANY MUA response to this yet?

[Anonymous]

This thread is getting to be VERY good – any nay-sayers?????????

Its getting a bit pointless.

Once the Australian unions agree on crew levels and have the bulk of their members on board. What they pay the rest of the crew and how they do it is rarely of any interest to them. Why would they care what the few foreign, non-members earn.? This is why companies such as Subsea 7 can send staff to Australia on their regular contracted rate. The pivitol point being agreed crew levels with the union, talk of loop-holes and other such nonsence is fantasy.

[Micbeth]

Its getting a bit pointless.

Once the Australian unions agree on crew levels and have the bulk of their members on board. What they pay the rest of the crew and how they do it is rarely of any interest to them. Why would they care what the few foreign, non-members earn.? This is why companies such as Subsea 7 can send staff to Australia on their regular contracted rate. The pivitol point being agreed crew levels with the union, talk of loop-holes and other such nonsence is fantasy.

This is not pointless as you give a factual rather than speculative explanation of the situation. Obviously a lot of people are not aware of the situation, otherwise the thread would have died pretty quickly.

So basically Subsea7 could send some their comparatively low paid Filipino ROV personnel to work in Australia as long as there is a quota of Australian MUA ticketed crew onboard?

Do you know what the quota percentages are and do they apply to just ROV crews or the whole of the vessel?

To substantiate your facts, can you explain what dealings have you had with the MUA and have you actually been involved in negotiating foreign crewing levels with them?

[Author]

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