ROV Job Australia

[liddelljohn]

I my case it would not suprise me that Oceaneering SG were using some chicanery….to get me in to work on an Australian job ..it was short notice and they were short handed so maybe no Aussies or NZ guys available?

In the case of CTC the job was a specialist trencher so I think they had some kind of aggreement in place as regards experienced personel.At immigration into OZ I presented a letter from CTC and seamans book with 2 other blokes all Brits . we were waved through.

When I worked in Telecoms projects in the distant past visas were often overlooked when a panic to get expensive projects sorted , i worked in many countries alongside local government officials and company personel with their full knowledge that rules had been bent …they were happy to have us onboard to get the job done I am sure the offshore industry is no different.

What is not good is when there are local guys available and they get overlooked for purely profit reasons.

[Micbeth]

Great posts Redherring. Very informative, and the last paragraph in your latest post hit the nail right on the head.

[James McLauchlan]

However a certain set of curcumstances must be present for this to happen, so I dont believe the flood gates will open as some folk think.

Can you please enlighten us as to what those ‘set of circumstances’ might be?

I appreciate your calming words, but feel that people shouldn’t be happy with an ‘I don’t believe’ answer to this. I’ve heard that, and similar expressions, too many times in his game only to see the exact opposite happen soon afterwards.
There are changes afoot and they need looking into before the flood gates possibly do open and it’s a done deal.

Also, on the importation of vessels, I am aware of a Norwegian DP vessel that was in Singapore and due to head to Australia. Before it sailed the Norwegian crew were replaced by Australian crew and he vessel is subsequently still operating in Australia some months later. It is my understanding that it now sails purely to and from Oz ports during the course of it’s offshore operations. I would suspect that it has been imported, even on a temporary basis, but don’t know enough about the situation to give a solid yes or no answer.

Do any members know of foreign flagged vessels, based in Oz, that are only making domestic Oz port calls?

If so, at which point is a vessel still on an international voyage and at which point is it deemed to have been imported, temporarily or otherwise?

There is something that is not quite right here and whatever it is it’s being exploited by the companies in direct contrast to the true spirit of the law.
For sure they would not want the fact publicised. But, no matter what the companies think, it needs highlighting if the practice is preventing Australian workers, such as those that frequent this forum, from gaining and retaining employment locally.

[Anonymous]

The mechanism by which companies send personnel to Aussie using MCV is unclear. The interpretation of the rules by companies, their agents and lawyers may not be the same as most of us on the forum. This doesn’t dilute the fact that it still happens.

MCV is an electronic type visa and might indeed be the type of visa Liddeljohn had, even without knowing it, or maybe he had nothing. The ‘expert’ letter used to get folk into the USA and Australia, but that was many moons ago. Its a huge step to knowingly break the immigration laws in places like Australia, thats asking for trouble. I doubt many companies would risk that these days.

[James McLauchlan]

If still just confused / misinformed and you’re indeed correct in there being an actual ‘loop-hole’, maybe lobbying from concerned parties including MUA to the various government departments (immigration, customs etc) & Trade Union to clear it up?

I agree also :tup:

You can’t lose anything by starting to ask questions on this but you can certainly lose out if nobody says or does anything.

• Write a letter to your local Oz MP
• Call the Oz immigration Dob-In line and report your concerns. All calls are anonymous and you will not get any feedback on action taken, if any.
• Refer your MUA rep to this thread if need be. Once they have had a good read they will be pretty clear on the next course of action to take.

A few words of warning. If you work for a company and you believe it is breaking immigration laws, do not voice your individual concerns to the company itself. It could cause you more grief that you might hope for. Contact any of the above listed suggestions as a more ‘safe’ alternative.

[Scott Beveridge]

Oz DOB see here:

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3324

UK hotline see here:

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3325

[Micbeth]

It looks like the subject of this thread has been well and truly explored. Thanks to everyone that has contributed, I don’t know about anyone else, but I have learned a lot. And thanks to 225 for his change of heart and explaining how some companies get around the the work visa rules in Oz by having their vessels classified as being on an international voyage.

I hope we can some day stick together and have a voluntary code of ethics and not undercut the locally agreed or normal dayrates that have been established in various areas around the world. Just remember, if you are a Brit willing to work in Oz for a 500 quid day rate (less than some trainee rates there) under the loophole explained here, do you have the right to complain about Filipinos coming into the North Sea for $50 per day?

[Scott Beveridge]

It looks like the subject of this thread has been well and truly explored. Thanks to everyone that has contributed, I don’t know about anyone else, but I have learned a lot. And thanks to 225 for his change of heart and explaining how some companies get around the the work visa rules in Oz by having their vessels classified as being on an international voyage.

I hope we can some day stick together and have a voluntary code of ethics and not undercut the locally agreed or normal dayrates that have been established in various areas around the world. Just remember, if you are a Brit willing to work in Oz for a 500 quid day rate (less than some trainee rates there) under the loophole explained here, do you have the right to complain about Filipinos coming into the North Sea for $50 per day?

Touche!! Well said mate! S’pose I better see about getting a visa for down under soon (ish)…. (and there’s still N. Sea ROV Supv. offers for (sitting down?) 380 GBP!!!!!!)

[stelly]

Why is it that we can have anyone from anywhere working in the North Sea? When you work anywhere else you need a visa! If other countries protect their workforce by requiring a visa why can’t the EU as a whole require one? Having worked in Oz on a 457 visa for one trip, I was kicked off a vessel I had been on for two years to satisfy MUA quotas. I can’t say it made me very happy with the union idea considering they are "brothers" of the RMT. I wonder if I had joined the union, would it of made a difference?

[R2D2]

Its a load of crock! I’m with Stelly; I work with a few good Ozzies, worth their weight in gold and no one complains when we work elsewhere. Why not down there?
The union are just a bunch of gansters and their devoted lazy control-van lawyer members. We were there legally and were still kicked out. It was obvious that Australia is run by a bunch of blokes wanting a lot for nothing, using any means available to keep it that way. No-one has the balls to tell them either.

I’ve wiped the dust off my boots and moved on. The hell with them.

Adios

[Christopher Tyson]

Stelly,

Whether satisfying ‘MUA quotas’ or not, please have a read of http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/faq2-subclass-457.htm

“Australia’s temporary skilled migration program aims to fill skill shortages within the Australian economy that cannot be filled from the local labour market. The recent economic downturn resulted in a decrease to the number of skilled positions within the Australian labour market.

Employers wishing to sponsor overseas workers to fill skilled positions are required to attest to having a strong record of, or demonstrated commitment to, employing local labour and non-discriminatory employment practices.”

My personal views:

From the above, it doesn’t seem fair to you, but seems fair to Australian citizens and PR’s, that is if you were replaced by a ‘local’ that is / was competent to fill your position.

Indeed I am not a member of any Union or currently working in Oz, but feel happier knowing that at least some employers abide by the spirit and or letter of which the law is intended (Sorry if it’s at your own personal expense), rather than finding perceived “loop-holes” to undercut the local labour market.

If I have to jump through hoops to obtain relevant visas to work in a global market, so be it.

If a suitably ‘qualified & experienced’ national replaced me and paid at the going market rate, that’s the way it is and should be.

If you have a problem with the spirit / letter of the laws pertaining to foreign workers (particularly labour paid under market rate) in the North Sea, UK, EU etc, I suggest you join and lobby your local Union, Member for Parliament, press etc. What is their response?

[Micbeth]

Stelly and R2D2, aren’t you agency contractors and weren’t some of the replacements for you and all the agency people forced off the job other foreign nationals who were on salary with the ROV operator and paid less than you?

This is a thread about the ways companies will try to get out of paying going rates, it has an Australian bias but this isn’t happening just in Australia. In your case it appears that you were foreign nationals being paid the going rate and were replaced with other foreign nationals being paid less. Exactly the situation we should be fighting against. Maybe you should also be placing some blame your lesser paid salaried colleagues for forcing you out of your well earned comfort zone.

[outsider]

Just to muddy the waters further I was just visa’d up for Australia, 1yr multi entry business plus full Australian Tax liability for all monies earned while working there, (offshore) javascript:emoticon(‘:cry:’)and this was by everyones least favorite company javascript:emoticon(‘8O’) So claims of visa loop-hole are ringing a little hollow, I will not say it does not happen and probably will continue to happen. But in my case my visa is legit all the way.

[Sit Rep]

"Just to muddy the waters further I was just visa’d up for Australia, 1yr multi entry business plus full Australian Tax liability for all monies earned while working there, (offshore) javascript:emoticon(‘Crying or Very sad’)and this was by everyones least favorite company javascript:emoticon(‘Shocked’) So claims of visa loop-hole are ringing a little hollow, I will not say it does not happen and probably will continue to happen. But in my case my visa is legit all the way."

A little disappointed to hear that but happy to see that you’re paying tax in my homeland.

BTW "everyone’s least favourite company" should not be judged by North Sea standards in this neck of the woods, here in Oz their workers were amongst the first to sign up to a union-backed pay agreement, this has left the workers slightly dis-advantaged (in comparison with some other companies later agreements which capitalised on the precedent set).

However I’m sure you’ll agree that working for a genuine Aussie rate will sh*t all over anywhere else and you don’t need a flak jacket! 😡 😉

[Savante]

I don’t know mate, maybe not a flak jacket, but id still try and find a hard-back book to shove down the back of your shorts when dealing with the aussi tax departments !! 😆

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