Underwater Centre ROV graduate looking for work

[RMAC]

Paul,

I have to be honest here we have found your reports on our fulltime staff from Asia to be very helpfull when it comes to identifying where our fulltime staff need extra training.

The course content appears to be evolving which is essential and has become a great way of getting a third party point of view on trainees.

people should be aware that this course is only the first few rungs on what will be a never ending ladder where learning is concerned.

Cheers for the help and support

Asia-ROV

[Anonymous]

well i think your a bunch of con men myself, you tell anybody who shows interest in your course that they will make a fortune and walk in to a job no problem, pray tell what % do? 5? 15? out of 100?

beware of that can of worms, i doubt you want to open it.

Out of interest has anyone ever NOT passed their training school course after forking out several thousand pounds. I know there are tests etc. whilst on the course but if no-one ever "fails" it, then what you are doing is getting a certificate of completion rather than passing or graduating.

This question suggests a level of naivity regarding why students are undertaking our courses.

I cannot answer for other training establishments but in answer to your question Ray, we have failed one student and threatened to ‘retire’ several others whilst I have been at The Underwater Centre (Fort William). All these students were sent here (and paid for) by their employers!

The vast majority of our students are self-funding. Virtually all have read this site before coming to The Underwater Centre. Many will have had many months (or even years) to consider carefully what they intend to do. I note the author of this thread first joined ROVworld in December 2006!

Our students do not undertake our courses lightly. For them it is probably one of the biggest investments both in time and money for their future career. They don’t undertake the course with the aim of failing – far from it, they work and study hard, commit themselves to homework in the evenings and weekends, and put in 110% effort. For me, this involves feeding an insatiable appetite for knowledge and makes my job a great pleasure. I don’t think IOMAndy would mind if I said he was an excellent example of such dedication and commitment.

We do have some students who may struggle from time to time, but for these, we provide additional instruction in the evenings and at weekends (sometimes on a one-to-one basis if necessary). As long as a student is making the effort, we will go the extra mile to make them competent. Our students pay money to learn to be competent and to be assessed as such. We go out of our way to ensure this happens. Simple!

Paul Bury
Head of ROV Training & Operations
The Underwater Centre (Fort William) Ltd

[Preid]

I saw the article in the P&J Paul

It says you recently carried out a survey, I cant recal ever being asked if I was working. Nor can two other guys in my class, I cant get ahold of the rest so who knows whats happened to them.

Agency work does not exist for new trainee’s at all. I’ve been told by 5 agency’s to stop wasting my and their time by applying for jobs. That they never have trainee work and I should goto the big companies.

So I take my ex fisherman self off to the companies, going into the office and I get told they’ll keep my CV on file and if anything comes up they’ll be in touch.

I phone every week, its got to the point where I’ve been told you’ve no technical background, we dont want you. It seems only ex military and guys who have a technical background have a chance.

Ive sent out CV’s to over 110 different companies, countless times. I’ve even offered to work for free! The list of emails you supplied was useless. Half of them bounced and the rest of the replies were ‘ *he/she* isnt employed with us anymore’.

So after reading the article in the P&J, which IMO just seems like you’re trying to up trade. I thought I’d reply here. As for flaws in the course, how does two days of skimming over hydraulics and fibre’s get you a IMCA code? D991 12 – Engineering Systems- Hydraulics? I found if I went to college for a year, even distance learning. I could of came away with a HNC in electronics which a company might recognise slightly more than these 4 bits of shiney paper. It also wouldnt of cost me thousands. As for the ROV course, taking off props hardly counts as hands on.

Since I left I’ve had to buy several books and study up, ever ready just incase I get a interview (i’m not holding my breath). But now, two months on since leaving the centre. I do feel a little disheartened.

A few students youre teaching just now have got in contact with me, so i’ll be keeping track of what they’re upto and what they do after the course. They all have varied backgrounds so it’ll be good to see what happens to them. Basicly a survey of my own!

Companies aren’t sitting there, arms wide open waiting to embrace a fresh new Trainee. Quite the opposite, it seems they’re only screaming out for Super’s and Pilot/Techs. Maybe you should run a trainee Super’s course? 😆 10 hours of sitting on your ass, drinking tea, moaning about what it was like in the old days and how bad the new trainee’s are.

Feel free to email me if you want to discuss some of the flaws of the course.
-distortion@hotmail.co.uk

Im off back to work now, £15k wont pay itself off!

/rant

Opening Lines of Article

Paul Bury’s hobby led him away from the Bar and into the briny. Susan Welsh learns how demand for others to follow suit and dive into a new career as a ROV operator is at a all time high.

I nearly choked on my tea laughing when I read that.

[James McLauchlan]

I think training schools do play a useful role in any industry but their initial sales approach and after course care sometimes leads to the type of discussion being held here.

Years back I saw the same with FW and diver training. FW were pumping out divers by the dozen when the industry was in a downturn. Few of those that took the course actually got into the game despite taking the course based on ads along the lines of… Become a deep sea diver, travel the world, earns loads of money etc. The jobs had dried up!
From what I am beginning to read it seems that similar methods are being employed at the establishment once again.

This is not directed at FW in particular because what I have written below (some of which I have sad before in this Forum) applies equally to any training establishment.

A contact sheet can be a valuable kick start to someone new to the game but giving students out of date contacts, as seems to be in the case mentioned above, is next to useless.
I would suggest, to those that are involved with running a training establishment, that if they are to give out a contact sheet it should be regularly updated.

I would question the validity of a survey on who is working when information comes to light (as provided by Preid) that clearly shows he was not asked nor were two of his course attendees.

Trainees.
To me I feel that no matter what you are being told at a training establishment (any training establishment) you are pretty much wasting time contacting Agencies looking for work.
The only sensible route in is via direct employment with a company.

Working for nothing?
I know that it may seem like an impossible task at times but please do not offer to work for nothing. Companies like that approach and will take advantage of it when it suits them. But doing so sets a trend that is very hard to reverse. It could conceivable get to the point where every company would expect trainees to start for nothing and be paid only after a trial period. I would head off and drive a truck before I would offer to work or nothing. In fact, as a diver starting out, I did just that whilst up in Aberdeen there were a number of individuals from a country in the south of Africa working for nothing offshore!

Training schools are a business.
They are in the game to make profit and will employ any legal means possible to achieve that goal.
Yes the industry is busy and it certainly needs a lot more experience offshore but pumping out hundreds of trainees and giving them false hope is not the solution.
The operating companies should not escape blame here. Traditionally they have been very slow in coming forward by spending some of their profits to cover future requirements by training people themselves at a steady trickle so that situations like this do not arise with as much impact as has recently happened. If those companies had employed that approach them there would be a spread of experience readily available which in busy times might need topping up a little.

Training schools will pump out attendees with certificates until there are no more takers. In the meantime the high price of oil will be used to give people the impression that course attendees should expect high wages not long after leaving the training establishment. This is what they need to portray to make the high cost of the course seem less of a financial commitment.
Preid has now shown that with the best will in the world you, as an individual, could be left with nothing more than a few bits of paper that cost thousand per sheet and no real means of paying off the loan you may have taken out.

Things are dire right now for sure. I recently left a job where one of the oncoming ROV supervisors had been in the game just 2 years! One of those years was drill support and here was that person was heading out to supervise on a construction job. How is that supposed to work?

I can’t see it developing into a safety issue but I can see it becoming very costly for the ROV companies as system after system gets trashed, days of downtime, lost subs etc. all through lack of experience offshore. It’ll be their own fault so I have no sympathy in that respect. It’s no secret that in British Industry as a whole (not just offshore) the managers of companies only look for a quick return and not long term investment for the future. That is why we are where we are at today.

[Preid]

A contact sheet can be a valuable kick start to someone new to the game but giving students out of date contacts, as seems to be in the case mentioned above, is next to useless.
I would suggest, to those that are involved with running a training establishment, that if they are to give out a contact sheet it should be regularly updated.

I would question the validity of a survey on who is working when information comes to light (as provided by Preid) that clearly shows he was not asked nor were two of his course attendees.

Im trying to get in contact with as much of the old FW students but its not proving easy. Id of thought they’d of all registered here. I went through to Aberdeen today to see about a job as a Rigger. The guy who was interviewing me told me he read the article and was thinking about the training!

…you are pretty much wasting time contacting Agencies looking for work.

Yep, you get told otherwise at FW. Reasons for are ‘they just might not be able to get the guy they want so they’ll pick the next best’ insinuating that it might be a trainee…

As for working for nothing, I agree with what youre saying but it was my way of trying to get a start. Im sure im not the last person who’s going to do it.

My aim at the moment is to get in with a big company, hopefully one of the big 7. Work my way from a Rigger to ROV. Long shot but its better than sitting at home crying about how I lost it all at FW.

I’ll email the writer of the Article in the P&J with everything ive got on the centre. All the students with no work and a 15k debt, some of the guys have taken out loans, given up their old job to sit the course believing they’ll get a job. What a scam…

Wonder when Paul Bury is going to email me…

[Subhashchaudhary]

Hallo dear,
i read that u had completed ur ROV course …I am also searching for the same to complete my courses…can u suggest me some good agencises who conduct the training arrengment….

I will be very thankful if u provide this information.

I’m completing my ROV course this week (22nd Feb), and so I’m looking for work offshore as trainee Pilot/Tech.

I have a good technical background, communication skills and work ethic.

Please let me know if you would like me to send a copy of my CV.

Thanks.

[Cabledog]

If you cannot even find the info for yourself on this site, or elsewhere for that matter, then you are gonna be one REALLY useful guy to add to the team aren’t ya.

Do your own ground work the same as every one else, then when you have the info ask a few RELEVENT questions, and post it in the CORRECT FU*$ING PLACE. 😳 😈 👿 💡 ❗ ❗

[blackbeard]

Remember Wray castle………???

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