Why Join the RMT? What does it do for it’s members? (UK)

[Anonymous]

divers, divers, divers. It looks like the RMT will dine out on that for many years to come. Of course it was a differant story for the riggers recently, who were also paid up members. Systematically being replaced by cheaper labour. Not much seems to be mentioned on that front.

SS7 has a master plan which is developing quickly. It will intresting to see if things change. However all this top secret, uni0n eyes only, keep it in house, hush-hush. Almost playground type behaviour doesn’t really impress. Instead of making me want to join it does the exact opposit.

[James McLauchlan]

ROV ROV ROV… The RMT may dine out on something else as well in future, but it was the divers that pulled it off (I was one) and there is no reason why ROV can’t do the same as long as they are not plagued by a bunch of fence sitters of which there seems to be a fair few around in the ROV game.

Some fair comments but I will pick up on this bit…..

However all this top secret, uni0n eyes only, keep it in house, hush-hush. Almost playground type behaviour doesn’t really impress. Instead of making me want to join it does the exact opposit.

The companies operate in exactly the same way. They keep it in house and hush hush. Only those within the company have access to the plans being made. They make their plans behind closed doors and implement the policies when they feel the time is right. Often those moves catch people (like us) by surprise because things are generally well under way by the time they find out about it.

This builds a solid case for having a Union members only area of this Forum. But those reasons are not top secret and the information is accessible to any verified uni0n member. Those that do not join can’t complain about something they are not a part of can they?

The reason for this approach is to prevent threads and posts being hijacked by non uni0n members that have one aim in mind and that is to circumvent any progress being made. So far it has worked admirably.

The next point I wish to make is that the OILC/RMT does not have a forum for ROV uni0n members but if they did you could pretty much guarantee access would be restricted to uni0n members only for the very same reasons. To prevent the companies from seeing what progress is being made.

You don’t see the companies forecasting and discussing their strategies in the open because that would give their game away to all those with a vested interest in that knowledge. The same applies in both directions.

Or does anyone honestly think it a good idea to have just one open uni0n forum that all website visitors can read?

I, for one, clearly do not!

best regards
James Mc

[Scott Beveridge]

Neil and James,

I agree the stratagems and policies shouldn’t be posted on this particular thread however, to show the interest to the fence-sitters, it would be good to see the number of members here.

[OILC_neil]

225,

Far from dining out on the divers, the OILC Branch of RMT takes absolutely no credit for organising the divers. They organised THEMSELVES. They began to organise in the NUS and continued when the merger created RMT, and they had taken their future in their own hands and won their “agreement” before OILC merged to create the current RMT.

What’s interesting about the divers is that they chose and persisted with a uni0n (the RMT) that encouraged them to organise themselves, and did not try and use them in petty games of “realpolitic”. Unfortunately every uni0n would not have helped creat the conditions for the divers to do what they did. This is one of the main reason OILC merged with RMT. And this issue is at the heart of one of the resolutions going to be put to the RMT AGM later in June.

That you are disinclined to join RMT is neither here nor there in one sense. It is never going to be about individuals’ preference for uni0ns or otherwise. It’s not some mathematical (arithmetical?) equation where one day (or not) there will be some majority for the uni0n and we can proceed in an orderly fashion to a collectively bargained ROV industry.

As in every other situation that workers have organised themselves, it has been at the point that it was no longer possible to go on in the old ways, that workforces and even entire industries have organised.
Under these circumstances even those of you who find the whole idea of a trade uni0n distasteful might be forced to throw in their lot with the uni0n if they want to continue in the industry and to provide for their families as before.

And even the most militant ROVer is going to have to capitulate if there are not the basic democratic structures in place through which the will of the workforce can be expressed and through which decisions can be taken by the workforce about how to proceed.

So that’s where we come in. The OILC Branch can’t organise FOR ROVers or anyone else. But what we can do is encourage and facilitate, co-ordinate and even advise.

If you could for one moment place yourself in the position of one of the hundreds of ROV RMT members, you would realise that it will be a good deal more comfortable discussing with like minded trade unionists, away from sniping by those who are blatantly hostile – let alone the mildly interested like yourself.

This open forum is the correct place to be having this sort of discussion and I welcome my opportunity to discuss with you and everyone else who posts on here. And we’re not discussing anything illegal or even particularly secret on the uni0n only forum (or interesting some would say) What we’re trying to do is our best to counter the attacks that are being made on our members, and make some plans of our own. Those of us who feel we can intervene in our own industry are going to meet on line as well as in branch meetings and anyone who joins the uni0n has the right to take part. But it would be absolutely self defeating to try and have a serious discussion in the midst of even a few people sneering. As I said the open forum is the place for that.

neil

[James McLauchlan]

Neil and James,

I agree the stratagems and policies shouldn’t be posted on this particular thread however, to show the interest to the fence-sitters, it would be good to see the number of members here.

Neil is chasing this up……

[Anonymous]

Are we talking about a uni0n or an underground resistance movement? its hard to tell from some replies. I would imagine the management and policy makers of these companies, or more accurately their cronies and scouts have all the feeback they want from forums and uni0n meetings. The only people who are being kept out the loop are potential members. In uncertain economic times membership should be booming. When peoples jobs are very clearly on the line, it would be a worry if membership didn’t increase. Its not quite as rosey for the uni0ns during the good times, but thats another story. I think being a little more open would aid the cause even more.

[James McLauchlan]

I fail to see why potential members would even want to know if membership is on the up or not? I didn’t.

That aside, I believe Neil (S100 RMT OILC branch secretary) is looking in the recent ROV joining figures and these may well be published here in attempt to appease those who can’t make a decision on their own without first seeing which way the waters are flowing.

If the first person that joined the fist uni0n asked that, and based their joining on membership numbers, then there would not be a uni0n! If you want to join do so.. but do so for the right personal reasons, not because you want only make a move if the majority have already made the decision for you.

Kept out of the loop?
Nobody is keeping anybody out of the loop and everyone has the freedom of choice to make any decision they wish, one will keep them fully informed the other not so informed, but no members are being kept out of the loop for sure. As a non member you cannot expect to be fully appraised of uni0n activities surely?

After all, we are at this very moment posting an open uni0n discussion board in which non uni0n members can discuss the merits of joining a uni0n or not, or any other aspects of uni0n activities, but what we do not get in the members area is a debate about the ins and outs of uni0n’s which would happen in an open uni0n forum as happens, strangely enough, in this open uni0n forum. But hey at least there is an open uni0n board. Early last year there were none!

As have suggested before if it were an open forum the threads would be hijacked and degenerate into tit for tat sessions. I know that after years of running this site and seeing what goes on in the rest of this forum.

As have also suggested (supposed spies or not) there is no sense in making open knowledge to the companies what is developing on the ROV RMT side of things. We might as well publish a weekly summary of progress in the P&J and watch the co’s put the pieces in place to counteract each element of progress.

If people want to become involved, join the uni0n, it cost very little compared to ROV day rates, less than one days pay. If they don’t like it then it’s easy enough to cancel membership. Hey! it’s not a mortgage you might be signing up for, but the end result may help pay your mortgage if you have one!

In 1975 I joined the uni0n (NUS) well before there were any internet based discussion boards around… I was just an air diver then, but I joined because I felt it was the right thing to do. The only discussions we divers had were Offshore, and in the bars onshore, we simply talked about it, joined and got on with it. We didn’t need anybody to convince us or lead us by the hand. We simply did what we felt was right. The end result was a band of NUS(later to be RMT) members that achieved their aims by believing in what they were doing and sticking together. The companies have not been able to dumped on those guys since.

I may be wrong, but the approach 225 suggests to me that of somebody sitting on a fence looking from afar (in effect wanting a free ride) to see if things are all hunky dory before making a decision. Why might that be?

Just join and get down to it, rather than dither around.
Support the ROV RMT campaign and see it through to fruition. Then you’ll not feel so bad accepting the hard won gains at the end of it.

[Scott Beveridge]

Indeed James! For the people who can’t decide, it’s only 15 pounds a month! Could you not get that back with an attractive pay rise??? There will be people that don’t live / work in the UK joining very shortly and they would really wouldn’t benefit anything at all!! These are the type of people you want on YOUR TEAM OFFSHORE!!!! I myself, have never been pro-Yuni0n but seeing all the crap I’ve seen / received from many ROV companies strengthens my resolve to do something about it (the movie Network – late 70’s comes to mind).

[Author]

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