Cheap, slave-type ROV labour

[Scott Beveridge]

Hi guys,

Check out the links below…..

I’m forwarding the below to you all in regards to the worrying, present trend that is occurring in our industry. SS7 and OI are not the only ones using cheap labor… Don’t want to get on a soapbox but there’s something we can do as a group… First we have got to act as a team and not the independent arseholes we’ve turned out to be. Sure, most of you have bills to pay, take care of a family, and save a retirement nest egg. Soooo… why not start to paying attention to what is actually going on with your pay? I, for one, am really tired of bending over and getting farqed where the sun don’t shine!!! Plus getting a bit worn out… I think about it daily when I have to stop and give English lessons. Can these guys read and understand JSA’s? Can they perform a safe, quick, efficient launch and recovery when you have to repeat yourself 3 or 4 times? Can they perform simple PMS? Log their maintenance? The list goes on…

Check these out:

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2659

http://www.rovworld.com/docs/rates.html

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2971

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2442

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2141

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1681

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2963

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1681

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=56

http://www.rovworld.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=521

Best regards,

Scot – offshore

Email forwarded to me below…

Subject: RE SS7 and Oceaneering using cheap 3rd world nationals as slave labour
"Neil Rothnie" <oilc>,

Hi Guys,

All of you that know me are aware that I am an easy going and (hopefully) fun sort of person that does not take too much very seriously.

Being ex-military I have also never been particularly for or against unions and what they stand for – although have always acknowledged that there certainly have been, and I expect will be again, situations where the existence of these bodies have greatly assisted and benefited people who cannot always defend themselves. Situations where profit becomes far more important than an individuals ability to provide for, cloth and feed his (or her) family.

Recently, I have been made aware of situations arising within our own industry, which if left unchecked could have far reaching consequences for all of us and which are making me look at the whole question of unions in a very different light.

Although many people within the ROV industry are employed by companies, due to the truely global nature of the industry many of us choose to, and are able to, operate as freelancers in conjunction with Agencies and Rov companies. The recent decision, taken by SS7, to recruit a workforce of much lower paid personnel from the Far East (Scott’s edit: Re: mainland Chinese = $30 – $100/day, Phillipinos = $78 / day, & Indians + $7 – $15 (?) / day), is very worrying, not the least for the manner in which it has been done, with an attitude of complete contempt. Oceaneering also appear to be utilising a similar method for ROV pilots in various parts of their operations.

I think most of us will have noticed a rather alarming drop in rates this year while the cost of oil has nevertheless risen. After the successes of the Divers involvement in a union and also the Australian offshore industry it is becoming painfully obvious that without some form of representation we are in danger of getting shafted very severely and replaced by a cheaper version.

Several people are working hard to form a body of representation and align it with existing bodies to give us all some badly needed strength and representation but to give it creedence we need as many as possible to get involved.

The bottom line here is that if we dont fight for our industry and our jobs – no one else will.

It is important that we are seen to care for our jobs and be united in our aim to protect our livlihood. It is also important that we do not delay in
sorting this issue out.

The OILC is a branch of the RMT which is representing offshore workers – I have attached some stuff for you to read – but it is important that as many of us as possible join so that we have a say on important issues that directly effect each one of us and our families – such as pay levels, working conditions etc.

I have only just seen all this stuff but if I can answer any questions please ask. The OILC secretary is Neil Rothnie, oilc.secretary@googlemail.com

[Ivan Forgot]

Scott,

I agree with you whole heartedly. From what I can tell the "Pilot tech" positions have almost disappeared completely. I know of 3 different companies sending out trainees as PT. This was confirmed by 3 different supervisors on the jobs. I would love to join the union, but I don’t see how it will help if the companies have no integrity. Also how will the union rules be enforced globally?

I would like better rates, but an actual job would help 1st. I guess the supervisors are afraid of being replaced if they complain about the lack of qualified "underlings?" Please advise…

Thanks,
squiddy

[Scott Beveridge]

Yes, globally would be the key… I’m working on that… First, I hoping (in vain???) that there would be a bunch of older guys (like myself) that would correspond with each other or blog (or whatever) and form a coalition or group and slowly get a larger interest group. Are they afraid? Some, but not all. Most companies know my ROV World handle… oh well and so be it… I don’t think that there are too many supv that will not say anything about lack of experience in their crew. And correct in one… the majority of companies would much rather peel the skin off their own backs than give pay rises. Yuni0n would be the way to go.

[James McLauchlan]

Nice initiative by ScotBeve there. People need to wake up and quick!

Subsea 7 have already announced, internally to their staff, that they will no longer be taking on Ex-Pat trainees! It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to see where that will lead to in the the next few years. No ex-pat trainees means no ex-pat trainees being promoted to PT, No ex-pat PT’s being promoted to Supervisors… game over.

If you are ROV, or in a related vocation, and based or connected with the UK, you should consider joining the OILC branch of the RMT, getting access to the OILC discussion Forum, and receiving emailed updates and forum group updates.

It’s aim is to gather (under one roof) all those working offshore within North Sea Energy sector. Many of you reading this may be UK citizens living overseas. You might not be working in the North Sea at present however this should have no bearing on you helping to support this initiative.

The Forum is very well structured.

There is a Subsea Forum with sub boards for ROV, Inspection Co-ordinators, Offshore Survey.
In other boards are Drilling, Construction/Engineering, Catering, Floating Production, and Deck Crew (Deck Foremen, Riggers, crane ops)
The Divers also have a board (under Subsea) and are joining in ever increasing numbers as the word gets out that there is now a central point for discussing and coordinating our efforts. The largest Vocational group in the OILC forum at the moment is….. wait for it……. ROV with 37 board members and more joining daily. Remember these numbers only reflect those that have found and joined the OILC forum not the number of ROV members in the RMT which is a considerably higher number.

No longer do divers have to chat about union matters in one forum, ROV in another and the other vocations tag along. All OILC union related matters/discussions for UK offshore energy workers have finally been brought together.

Ultimately I see the Divers, ROV and other Subsea vocations working together to ensure that all are under an offshore agreement of one form or another.

There are a couple of simple ways froward here….
Join in, get with the plan and spread the word. Or, do nothing and wonder where your job went! If the divers can do it, the Noggie sector can do it and the Oz troops can do it then so can the UK ROV sector. Not only that, the more countries that join in the greater the chance of stamping out the cheap labour practices being employed by the likes of SSS7 (on our on doorstep!) OI and others.

If you live in Asia and you feel that this initiative may not be of help to you then think again. The bigger co’s want regulars but if they have to dump them off each time the boat goes into say… Norway, Oz or UK parts of the world it will start to become less cost effective for them to pursue this cheap labour policy.

Also, those of you that are British Citizens living overseas (at present), it would be to have a job to come back to wouldn’t it? So supporting your future is also a consideration.

[Rons_ROV_Links]

Was told appr. 4 months ago that Saipem "ordered" appr. 100 Filipino pilots.

[Scott Beveridge]

Thanks for the back up guys!

Ron,

Why doesn’t this surprise me… at all???

Anybody else????? Or are we in "I’m awright Jack" mode????

Have a hard, long think about it youngsters!!!!

BTW – I forgot to mention the ex-Eastern bloc ROV guys (US $100-400/day). And the GOM boys (very lost in their own world… I’m an American BTW)

[andyrose]

Hi All,

I have been in touch with Neil regarding membership of RMT/OILC.

I live outside of UK and was concerned that union membership would serve no useful purpose for me if indeed I was able to join.

Also the RMT membership asks for an NI number – not having one does not prevent membership of the union.

There is no problem joining. Neil assured me that the OILC organisation will strive to assist all members – regardless of location. Obviously they are going to have more power in certain locations than others – but being a global industry then the issues are liable to be of a more global nature.

Membership of a UK professional body would also make it easier to bring pressure to bear on a company who has global interests. For example if SS7 continue this "slave labour recruitment" presumably union members in Oz and Norway could unite to bring pressure on other parts of their operations – thus having a much more profound and poignant effect.

It is in all off our interests for as many as possible (and as quickly) to unite and work to prevent the propogation of these work practices. At the moment we are needed to train other people, but at some point in the future our usefulness will decline. Now is the time to sort this out and not let it fester and languish in inaction.

Not all companies are party to these prcatices but if a handful get away with it – then pressure will come onto other companies
to follow suite to remain competitive.

Guys this is our livlihoods we are talking about – we need to stand up and be counted now!.

Deepsea

[James McLauchlan]

I live outside of UK and was concerned that union membership would serve no useful purpose for me if indeed I was able to join.

Andy

Some good points of view there. It would be good if more people would be more open about this.

I also live outside the UK, plus I no longer work offshore, although our business is ROV/Subsea related.

For me I care not if I may benefit from this initiative personally, but for sure I want to help where I can to protect workers in our industry from the power of corporate management principles. Especially the likes of SS7 and others where it is very apparent that they are more than happy to walk over what they view as defenceless disorganised individuals. I say think again!

For others that may be reading this……

If you feel complacent enough to allow yourself, and your fellow countrymen, to be walked over by the likes of these companies then I feel sad for you. Think a little deeper than just your own needs and consider the bigger picture or you may regret sitting on the fence for many years to come.

Enough of my ranting for one day….. however…..tomorrow……

[Scott Beveridge]

James wrote:

For me I care not if I may benefit from this initiative personally, but for sure I want to help where I can to protect workers in our industry from the power of corporate management principles. Especially the likes of SS7 and others where it is very apparent that they are more than happy to walk over what they view as defenceless disorganised individuals. I say think again!

Exactly in a nutshell folks!

James wrote:

For others that may be reading this……

If you feel complacent enough to allow yourself, and your fellow countrymen, to be walked over by the likes of these companies then I feel sad for you. Think a little deeper than just your own needs and consider the bigger picture or you may regret sitting on the fence for many years to come.

Enough of my ranting for one day….. however…..tomorrow……

It was a justifyable rant James.

I see this simply as a numbers game… without the numbers we, as an industry, haven’t got a chance (re:strength)! Fence-sitters please note….

[ROVRatt]

If you guys remember, about 2 years ago I predicted this situation when personnel resident in the UK stated that UK residents should be paid more than those resident elsewhere because their living costs are greater? I was then argueing that all ROV personnel of the same grade in the same company should be paid the same, regardless of nationality. Certain members here were against this idea.

But, seeing that I can join the OILC, I will be doing so as soon as I get home from offshore. As a South African national, I will join the campaign for fair pay for all, especially because I am being paid less than a British national at present and have always been, even when working alongside a Brit of the same grade on the same system.

[xxx]

As a supervisor I have been complaining about the weak team members being sent out for the passed 2 years. Now we have even more of a problem. I have spent the year in Norway and the Norweign union is already up in arms over the cheap labour problem. Apparently SS7 was fined a few years back for under paying there personnel.

The union is the way to go. I tell everyone about OILC and encourage all to join. The benefits in life cover and legal cover are worth the monthly fees as the legal cover can be used for any situations from car crash to sueing the ex wife! Get onboard everyone or we will go under management are only interested in making the rich richer and maintaining the share holders and their own full pockets. Explotation of third world labour is wrong so please remember it is not the filopino or South Africans fault.

The time is now before it is too late. Join today.

[andyrose]

Guys,

If you go to http://www.nokernok.com and read what benefits just joining OILC brings you – its worth the 15:77 a month just to know that your family would get an immediate pay out in the event of your death. You can bet that your own insurance companies will cock about and FCUK your dependants about. Access to legal advice etc its worth it.

Then add to that the power of collective bargaining – the divers have just got a guaranteed deal for 3 years – How many ROV guys are sitting on their arses moaning about the lower than normal rates?

The yearly membership fee is a days rate for a trainee!! – get you fingers out of your bums, stop bitching and sign up.

The OILC/RMT have just presented SS7 with their thoughts on the despicable practices being perpetrated by senior management. Now is the best possible time to stand up and be counted. If any companies are allowed to get away with this shit – we are all screwed – and worse, will only have ourselves to blame for our predicament.

Several people have been working hard to give us this opportunity to take our destiny into our own hands. If we fail them now we fail ourselves and you can kiss a large part of our industry and consequently our livelihoods goodbye.

You think I am exaggerating? SS7, Oceaneering and Sonsub are among a few very big players in a not so big game. If they are able to force our wages downwards and at the same time retain their huge profits they will see that as fair game, especially if we sit back and let them do it.

Come on guys, stop moaning and do something about it.

For all of our sakes.

Deepsea

[OILC_neil]

Guys,

I’d like to apologise for not having been on the site for some considerable time. Life in the uni0n has just got hectic and, as you’re probably aware, James and Garry have built an OILC Branch “forum” at http://www.nokernok.com which is attracting my attention.
I really appreciate the opportunity I’ve had to listen to what you guys are saying. But remember the OILC Branch of the uni0n belongs to its members and that includes you guys if/when you join. Because of the nature of the industry and the strain that our schedules puts on any practical kind of branch democracy (how many guys can regularly get to branch meetings?) I am very aware that the branch officers need to keep an ear to the ground and try to give voice to what the members are actually saying
Rovworld has been invaluable for us in this respect and nokernok will be possibly even more so.
But use the avenues that are open to you to get your point of view across. You can always mail me directly at oilc.secretary@gmail.com and our branch paper, “Enough is Enough” will carry your letters. In fact now we have the “Enough is Enough” forum we should be able to carry EVERY letter we get and once we’ve filled up the paper we can direct our readers to the “virtual pages” of Enough is Enough at http://www.nokernok.com. That’s the plan if the boffins who have given us a brilliant site already, tell me that this is no problem
Here’s my latest post about the “open” letter to Subsea7, on the OILC Branch forum
I spoke to Jake (Regional Officer for the Offshore Energy Section of RMT) today and he’s been out of the office for two days but will deal with our request to sign the letter tommorrow and get back to me.

Bob Crow (General Secretary of RMT) and Steve Todd (National Officer of RMT) are touring the Hebridies doing shipboard visits on the MacBraynes ferries. (We’ve got to think about some shipboard visiits to the ROV fleet eh – think Subsea7 would like that?) I spoke to Bob’s PA Adrian and he’ll be speaking to Bob and make sure Bob deals with our letter asap. It’s pishing it down in Oban today so they’re bound to have time to check their Blackberries this evening.

The "signatures" from SS7 guys are still coming in and as soon as this letter is in the hands of SS7 I’ll get on with widening the campaign to the other companies, Technip, Oceaneering etc etc. And don’t worry we’ll post and circulate any response we get from Subsea7

I can understand the impatience. I feel it myself. And if we wanted you can send SS7 the letter (it’s your letter) without theses supporting signatures from Bob, Steve and Jake. But I would strongly advise we just hang on and get the support from the leadership for this.

This is not a short term fix here we’re after. Without getting "organised" and getting an "agreement" that will regulate the behaviour of these barbarians we’ll be back to square one and facing another disgraceful attack from one or other of the employers – and sooner rather than later.

So please bear with us for the moment

fraternally

neil
—
Neil Rothnie
OILC Branch Secretary

[anthony van schalkwyk]

A message to all the unionised clowns out there …wake up your coffees cold mate !!Firstly ,which country are you working in ?Do you believe you have the right to dictate who hires who in that particular part of the world ?If you dont like the way business is conducted there stay on your own hallowed soil and find employment where your union has jurisdiction .

[KeyserSoze]

The latest turn of events, which has rightly prompted an overwhelming response, is the employment of cheap labour to parts of the world where standards already exist.

The aim is to keep parity with the existing workforce and not drive rates down

YOU CLOWN!

[Author]

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