How many would join the union?

[Kalbo]

How many people would join the union now if they knew it would guarantee them a 15% or more pay rise???

[luckyjim37]

or just do an extra 7.2 days per year and earn the same.

[Kalbo]

Well you work your extra days then JACK….

[James McLauchlan]

or just do an extra 7.2 days per year and earn the same.

Or just roll over and give up…. take the easy way out, sit on the fence etc etc. zzzzzzzzzzz

[Scott Beveridge]

Luckyjim,

And then when times are slow??? Get real dude! You can work the extra days! Not me… On second thought, we should only have to work 180 days a year if we’re on a regular rota… Less than that (a bit) would be better…

[Andy Shiers]

Some people need to get more experience , Scott 😀

[luckyjim37]

Ok joking aside now.

15% would be nice there is no doubt about it but I earn enough to live a good comfortable lifestyle. Personally I feel to ask for more money is in my case being greedy.

I do not like to be called a fence sitter and feel it is unfair. A fence sitter is someone who is undecieded about an opinion. I do not want to join the OILC so that is the side of the fence I have chose. If I am pushed and have no other option but to join in the future then I would but it would only be if it got to the point of you needed a medical a survival and union membership to work offshore.

That is not doing nothing and sitting on the fence that is being very happy with what dayrates I am offered and the conditions that come along with it.

The whole point of a uni0n is about workers uniting because they want to not because someone has harrased and name called them into doing so.

Just out of curiosity what percentage of ROV pilots are now uni0n members.

More to the point are all ROV pilots welcome to join regardless of Nationality?

[luckyjim37]

And when times are slow 15% of no day rate is a cracking payrise.

[Ray Shields]

15% of what? Does it not depend on what you are paid? Have the Divers agreed a worldwide pay rate for all their members, meaning if you are a Diver grade X you will be paid £Y a day no matter your nationality or where you work?

Or are we talking about UK divers agreed rises for work in the North Sea? Do they also have Divers coming from Eastern Block countries, Philipines etc. undercutting them?

Also remember that uni0n recognition in your ROV company is extremely difficult to get – it’s not 50% of the ROV department you need to get in the same uni0n, its 50% of the Workforce of that company (meaning you would have to get Office people to join also).

[Scott Beveridge]

Lucky jim,

Fair enough statement and yes. indeed, it’s your choice. But what if your pay starts decreasing due to the large influx of cheap slave labor? It’s beginning or becoming more frequent now to the point of reflecting on our (old carunts) pay. There hasn’t been any uplifts of pay recently has there? Can’t remember where your from…. but as a non-UK citizen, yes, it would take quite some time to get the ball rolling globally. It would have to start somewhere…

Ray, that’s a given. Yuni0n represetation in X company needs the numbers or it would defeat the purpose. And I’m actually not sure whether "expat" divers are working in the N. Sea arena.

[James McLauchlan]

……….. it’s not 50% of the ROV department you need to get in the same uni0n, its 50% of the Workforce of that company (meaning you would have to get Office people to join also).

Ray

Nice to see you jump in here. I’m a company man too.

General comments not directed at Ray 😉

Take SS7 for example (as they seem to be taking the biggest hammering for obvious reasons).
They are party to the divers agreement because they were forced (by the divers) into it, not because they chose voluntarily to go that route.

Right now there is an initiative under way, in the OILC forum, debating the viability of a blanket sub-sea offshore agreement being implemented covering the whole of the UK sector.

Please (whomever) … don’t say it will never happen because, as a diver in the past, I had to listen to so many people say that we (as divers) would never get an agreement!

In companies that (as much as they would wish) have less staff onshore than offshore, when you play the numbers game and add Divers to ROV, plus a a bunch of other minority vocations (numbers wise), it’s not hard to see how this could work in favour of the offshore troops on the union recognition side of things.

Of course…. you could choose to go it alone.

Employers and RMT reach agreement on pay for divers

News – October 20, 2006

The Signatory Employers group to the Offshore Diving Industry Agreement has announced that it has reached agreement with the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) on pay and conditions for around 700 UK North Sea divers and support crews.

The new three-year deal offers an increase of 20 per cent effective 1 November 2006 followed by a further 5 per cent on 1 April 2007.

For each of the second and third years an increase of RPI plus 1.5 per cent or 5 per cent (whichever is greater) was accepted by the RMT.

The RMT is strongly recommending the offer to its members and will ballot them to gain confirmation.

Colin Gibson, who chaired the employers group, said: “This has been an extremely difficult round of pay talks set against a back drop of a particularly buoyant international market and it has taken a special effort on the part of the signatory group. We believe this is an excellent deal for the workforce while at the same time it maintains an agreement which provides stability moving forward and removes what was a real threat of disruption to work programmes”.

The Offshore Diving Industry Agreement came into existence during the early 80s and both the RMT and employers acknowledge its value in preserving the earning potential of the workforce and providing a stable reference for all its stakeholders.

The signatory members to the agreement include Subsea7, Technip, Acergy, Integrated Subsea Services (ISS), KD Marine, RBG Limited and Well-Ops.

Come on troops…… wake up!

[Andy Shiers]

It is not just the pay I’m after James , After all the discussions on here , the other thing I’m wanting is Time recognition 👿
The only way to police our industry is getting this Unyion off the ground .
It will help remove Useless idiots off the systems and people just out to make a quick buck !
It will also show commitment and help to see through supposed lies on
C of V’s .
Experience and pay should go hand in hand .
And this is linked to experience and position !
There for – five years minimum to be a supervisor.
Trainees are additional to the team.
Trainee rate is set across the board NO MATTER WHAT NATIONALITY and there is a basic rate for Pilot/techs NO MATTER WHAT NATIONALITY .
People who have not got the flying time experience but sat on their arses
( Maybe not due to their own fault ……… just no work around at the time ) DOES NOT COUNT AS TIME IN THE INDUSTRY 😯
Same as the ROV sitting in the TMS or sitting watching a Bullseye DOES NOT COUNT !

[Andy Shiers]

If there is a set rate , then you do not get cheap labour from other countries acquiring YOUR proffesion 😀
Unless of course……………………………….. They are better than you 😈

[James McLauchlan]

I agree, it’s not only about the money.

Plus, for the benefit of those that seem to keep thinking that unions and strikes go hand in hand, it’s not about strikes either.
Cast your mind back and think about how many times the dives have come out in the last 10 years. That proves my point.

I hate to keep harking on about Divers agreement but currently it’s the closest model we have to refer to right now however it does cover all sorts of things, pay, training allowance, grades etc. and has certainly helped to stabilise the diving industry from a workers perspective.

The bulk of the items lostboy mentions would be factored into a blanket subsea offshore agreement to help stabilise the whole of the subsea industry by way of fair pay and working conditions/practices.

How many are in the union?
I hate this question. You join because you feel it is the right thing to do, not because you want to wait until the majority have made the decision for you. Could you imagine if nobody joined because there was nobody in the union and they were all waiting for someone to join? There would still be nobody in it!

If you (or doubting Thomas and his pals) want to know how many ROV people are in the OILC branch of the RMT join and ask. It’s that easy.
Membership costs bugger all compared to the money ROV are/should be on… there again you could save the money, have a few pints and hope someone else will help secure your future.

OILC/RMT ROV numbers are on the increase. There has been a recent noticeable influx from SS7 but it is a shame that many waited in the wings until they started to see for themselves (within their own company) what we are talking about. (see below)

Even so, in general terms I am amazed by the positive response so far as ROV union member numbers are increasing rapidly.

It appears, judging by the numbers, that ROV pilot seats on fences, are now unofficially banned 😉
The doubting Thomas’s (apologies to Thomas or his mates you are reading this) are fast becoming a minority.

Who are the union negotiating with?
Recently a SS7 Management person visited a work site. When asked, by the offshore manager, about the viability of using cheap labour to replace ROV and Inspection co-ordinators the response was:

"Get on the bus or fcuk off!"

That’s who we are dealing with!! Nice people eh?

[James McLauchlan]

That is not doing nothing and sitting on the fence that is being very happy with what dayrates I am offered and the conditions that come along with it.

You probably don’t work for SS7 then because if you did, sooner than you think, your position might not be available to you.
SS7 are are openly employing cheap labour (from the Philippines) and have advised their current employees that in future they will only be sourcing ROV trainees from overseas. (They’ll be the $48/day troops)
Give it a couple of years and those trainees will become P/T’s and then Supervisors… all on about 15% of your current day rate. So rates will start dropping as other companies follow suit in a bid to remain competitive.

How would you then……

earn enough to live a good comfortable lifestyle.

I’m not sure how much longer you see yourself working in this game but at this very moment in time fair paid jobs for trainees are already in doubt and, as a result, in the next couple of years fair paid jobs for P/Ts and later supervisors, will vanish also.
Yet, for some reason, there are people around that hope it won’t happen and it’s all a bad dream they will wake up from.

[Author]

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