How many would join the union?

[Paul Bond]

Just a couple of points to throw into the mix:-
1. To dive you need an industry recognised qualification – pretty much worldwide these days. To ROV, you don’t officially need any qualifications. The divers went on strike and could not be replaced – if ROV went on strike, we have seen at SS7 that they are easily replaced.
2. The divers agreement was for North Sea – divers elsewhere didn’t benefit much. What if we don’t always ROV in the North Sea – i doubt we would feel the same ‘benefits’ elsewhere.

The constant haranguing of people to ‘wake up’ etc is becoming oppressive. Let people make a free choice and lets not belittle either side of the argument.

[James McLauchlan]

Warning!

This is a post about union matters. It has been posted in the union board. If you are not interested in such things please look in a place other than here.
You must be able to decide (on your own) not have to read this if you do not wish to.

End of warning!

If you agree with the above please proceed…….

if ROV went on strike, we have seen at SS7 that they are easily replaced.

Incorrect… but that’s just my opinion.
All we have seen is that it is easy to get cheap ROV trainees into the UK sector from other countries.
We certainly have not seen, at SS7, that ROV are easily replaced and I fail to see what gave you that impression.

You cannot easily replace ROV people. As most people around here know it takes time to train a team of people to operate and maintain an ROV system. However SS7 have already started the ball rolling by hiring cheap foreign labour and bringing them into the UK sector. If nothing is done about that now, it won’t matter in the longer term because eventually the teams will be 100% Filipino (from trainee to supervisor) and they wouldn’t strike as they are on mega bucks!

There are plenty of divers worldwide with HSE PtII sat tickets (me included) but many of the foreign divers won’t get a look into the UK sector because they would have to be on the same rate as the UK divers due to the RMT agreement. When having to pay that kind of money to divers (oddly) companies choose to use their own countrymen. The same would happen if there were a blanket subsea agreement in place covering Divers, ROV and other subsea related vocations. That idea is being debated now on the OILC Forum but it’s early days and we have to get the divers in on the idea. To me (now) it is very apparent that having a stand alone ROV agreement would play into the companies hands.

All that is being looked for here is for UK jobs to be filled by UK people on fair rates. Just the same as in Norway and Australia. Or… bring in foreign labour by all means, but they must be paid as per the agreement that is being pushed for and then let them compete on level terms.

If ROV and Divers (plus other vocations) work together on this then there will be strength in numbers and there is a chance it can be sorted in the North sea at least. It will also see the UK follow on behind Norway and Australia in looking after their own people.

2. The divers agreement was for North Sea – divers elsewhere didn’t benefit much. What if we don’t always ROV in the North Sea – i doubt we would feel the same ‘benefits’ elsewhere.

You are right, the benefits may not be felt as much elsewhere but, no matter where you currently live and work, the repercussions of doing nothing will be felt.
Are there UK people around the world that really want to see Filipinos take away UK ROV jobs and not lift a finger to help prevent it? Once they have a few North Sea jobs in their CV they will start filtering through the global system closer to home and you’ll be replaced in Singapore (or wherever you happen to be working) for someone willing to work for $48/day or maybe a few dollars more as a supervisor!

The constant haranguing of people to ‘wake up’ etc is becoming oppressive. Let people make a free choice and lets not belittle either side of the argument.

Nobody is constantly haranguing anybody.

Has anybody, other than union group members, ever received a PM from this forum about union information? No!
Have any members of this forum ever received an email through their registered forum address about union matters? No!
Is anybody forced to read post about union matters? No
Is there a section in this forum that says quite clearly in it’s title: Uni0n Information (General Discussion)? Yes!

People have a choice They can read union stuff or not. Each post referring to unions can be clearly seen to be in a board dedicated to union discussions. If there are union posts outside the union board please advise me and I will move them to their correct location.
There is only one union board with open public access.
If people feel harangued then they are reading the wrong posts in the wrong board and might wish to read through any of the other Thirty Eight boards there are in this Forum.

In short, if people are not interested in union matters then don’t read the stuff posted in this union discussion board and they won’t feel harangued. How easy is that?

If you are in the OILC branch of the RMT you should register at: http://www.nokernok.com and add to the ROV discussions going on.
You’ll need your RMT number to hand on registration.

[luckyjim37]

I have to agree with Norfolk here. There has been an element of you are a uni0n member or you are a fence sitter going on here.

This is a discussion after all. If everyone had the same opinion and the same point of view then the concerns of some pilots who are unsure about the situation may be missed due to what seems like quite aggresive wording of some posts.

The problem with this whole thing is industry reaction. Will agencies start to refuse to sign up Uni0n members because they cost to much. Or will it end up being the other way where as you have to be in the Uni0n to be accepted for work.

If, and obviously this a big if, the uni0n starts pay and condition talks and it gets to the point where a strike ballot is called and the uni0n goes out on strike what happens to those who do not wish to strike and try to work on.

Things got awful nasty during the miners strike would we see this offshore??

Maybe the next general disscusion on this subject should be what would it take to get an anti-uni0n ROV Pilot to join the OILC.

[Anonymous]

Divers again….. Nobody likes to mention the Subsea 7 riggers who have lost there jobs and continue to do so. Many of whom were fully paid up members. The union did nothing to prevent the use of cheaper labour. The last resort of withdrawing labour would have meant being replaced sooner rather then later for those guys. Without this trump card it was always going to be a lost cause.

Join the union for all the reasons other than job protection. Some folk believe this is a service the union offer. Your skills and experiance will be your best bet against troubled times. We will get the usual rally call every month or so on the forums and the use of cheaper labour will continue to rise in ROV teams….says it all really

[Morne]

I will Join the Union

[quaich]

So how do you go on strike without organising through a union ❓ ❓ 😕

Strikes aren’t in anybodies best interest but the threat of it must be real.
I reckon theres too many I’m alright Jacks or people who for some reason are so anti union they’d rather close their eyes to whats happening in this industry to make a strike work.
It’s these people we need to convince to join preventing an actual strike itself.

Collective bargaining seems the only way to me.
This is from someone who was never anti union but thought provided I could do my job the company would see me okay and there was no need to join.
So far that philosophy has worked but for how much longer ?

[Andy Shiers]

I agree 😯

[quaich]

But does luckjim37 ?????

He’s not the only one out there so how do you get these guys to join ?
Some just don’t see what the future holds unless something is done.

The thing that really irks is so long as they sit back playing into their companies hands we’re all going to suffer
or
if an agreement is reached (unlikely unless they do sign up) they’ve done nothing to help but will reap the benefits.

[Andy Shiers]

Something else to think about 😕
All those people in the last three years with no experience that have finally got into the Industry , Do not wish to rock the boat 😯 They will not join because they think they will be out of a job 😕
All those people who have said old and bolds should get out of the way for the young ones ! Now’s your chance to put your money where your mouth is 🙂 It will get rid of "deadwood" and raise the pay whilst give what is due to experienced personnel …………………………. Like me 😀
Bring it onnnnnnnnnnnnn …………………….. 😈

[Andy Shiers]

Norfolk wrote

The constant haranguing of people to ‘wake up’ etc is becoming oppressive. Let people make a free choice and lets not belittle either side of the argument.

I fail to understand people who say this if they are experienced and have worked in the industry a long time 😯 I did not think I would join either but you don’t really need too many brain cells to realise that our indusrty is getting screwed 🙄
I disagree with your statement there old chap espeicially as it was put in the "Union Information discussion forum" 😯

[quaich]

Divers again….. Nobody likes to mention the Subsea 7 riggers who have lost there jobs and continue to do so. Many of whom were fully paid up members. The union did nothing to prevent the use of cheaper labour. The last resort of withdrawing labour would have meant being replaced sooner rather then later for those guys. Without this trump card it was always going to be a lost cause.

If the riggers striked your right they’d be down the street sooner.
Can we use the riggers as a model for ROV though ?
Thats a serious question as I honestly don’t know.
Can an offshore riggers learn their trade in a Korean shipyard or merchant navy for example.
If so it’s very unfortunate and likely something SS7 knew only to well which is why they were picked off first.

Regardless of that you can’t learn ROV’s without being in the ROV industry.
What’s happening now ? We’re seeing cheap foreign ROV trainees.
Can you see where this is going ?
If everyone stuck together now we can avoid the situation the riggers find themselves in.

The union should have been more involved with the riggers.
Why weren’t they ?
Did they try ?
Was it already a lost cause ?
Over to the RMT with those questions.
If I was a rigger I’d be feeling let down but I still can’t see that as a reason to stand aside and eventually be replaced or forced to work for the square root of f*ck all.

[Anonymous]

It seems some folk are missing the point about the Subsea 7 riggers. Its not about training, education, experiance or what ever. Its about being a paid up member of a union that did next to nothing to safeguard jobs. Perhaps folk think the union would be more focused on the ROV lads than riggers who have been members for years. I seriously doubt it.

Across the field in all disciplines, those of a lower rank are being replaced by cheaper labour. ROV guys are not immune unfortunatly. We’ll see lots more union talk, collective bargaining, strike talk and other nonsence. With 95% of the ROV lads firmly in the I’m alright jack brigade, nothing will happen. You can either get used to the idea of Filippino P/T’s now or moan about it, talk about it forums to fellow brothers ….and then get used to it.

As mentioned before, join the union for all the reasons except job protection, its not somthing they offer. They are powerless to prevent cheaper labour entering the ROV market, its as simple as that.

[mind-when-this-was-fields]

Perhaps then ROV and offshore yunion members should be looking to the OILC to lobby parliamnent for a change in working laws?;so cheap foreign labour is not so easily available to work for a british company.?
Or make the companies pay them the going rate?
If other countries can make it difficult for non residents to work why not the UK??????

[James McLauchlan]

I’ve written this before on this site. ‘Roll over a give up why don’t we!’

People…. What has happened to our so called ‘Great Nation’ looking out for themselves?

It’s very weak willed to suggest that we must accept the inevitable. No matter where the result may potentially come from I feel that people must act to protect jobs in their own country from cheap foreign labour. If anyone here, as Brits, wants to argue for inevitability then I feel sorry for them.

The Norwegians look after their own. The Aussies look after their own, the Americans try to protect their industry, why shouldn’t the Brits?

[Andy Shiers]

Simple James , Us Brits , ( Multi Cultured , F#!ked-up nation ) will stand up for our rights when there is nothing left to stand up for 😕
The hard working , tax paying , middleclass BACKBONE of this country will have moved out a long time ago to care and Europe will use the Island as an immigration and prison dumping ground for nuclear waste 😯

[Author]

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