IROVA.org News (2011-02-02) – Website now live!

[IROVA_News]

IROVA News – Update (2011-02-02)

The new IROVA website is now live at http://www.irova.org

The International Remotely Operated Vehicle Association is still undergoing official registration. A long drawn out process it seems!
In the meantime it has been decided to go live with the website to at least provide some basic information about IROVA and publish a mission statement.

Membership applications are not being accepted at present.
However, should you wish to register your interest in joining the IROVA there is a form on the site where you may do so. The form can be found via the IROVA membership menu item. Once membership is open, all those having registered their interest will be contacted and invited to join.

Upon successful registration of the Association full contact information, telephone numbers, registered address and mailing address will be provided online via the IROVA website.
Only at that juncture will membership applications be accepted and processed.

[luckyjim37]

The website is not taking members yet which is fair enough whilst getting set up.

To get a feel for how things are going would it be possible to find out how many within the industry have registered a membership request.

This might give an early indication as to potentially how this could develop and a big figure could well get the "lets wait and see" guys onboard.

If you do release a figure I am one of them.
Personally I do not intend on staying long term in the industry; but think that this is a very positive step in the right direction to push the industry forward and get over a lot of the problems seen in the past few years with rates, training and general terms and conditions.

[Bacaruda]

What has happened to IROVA?

Has the website closed?

[James McLauchlan]

The person, who there was initially a lot of contact with, who said they would set up/register the Association disappeared… never to be heard from again on the subject.

I supported/set up the website and domain name but did not renew it as there was no further support forthcoming from elsewhere. The site ISP account has been allowed to expire. The domain name may still be registered. i don’t care any more to be honest.

The Union idea (get an agreement in place) failed due to lack of interest on the part of the UK ROV techs and RMT, the IROVA idea failed for pretty much the same reason…. lack of sustained interest on a global level . Yet people still bitch about pay and conditions.

That is the last time I put any of my time into such a venture on behalf of the ROV industry. I have a life to get on with so that’s what I’m doing.

Hopefully, someone else will do something about the dismal rates and conditions being seen presently in the ROV industry. One thing I do know is it won’t be the companies or the training schools that sort it out.

[KeyserSoze]

I agree with you on that one. Seems to be loads of people moaning but when it comes to doing anything they seem to drift away………..

Happy to make bullets for other people to fire as it were.

What’s the old saying? Put up or shut up or something? Ha!

Good for you James. :tup:

[James McLauchlan]

KeyserSoze

Cheers! :tup:

[Mr W]

So right, everyone moaning and doing nothing about it.

I worked in Nigeria with SS7 when they took the hazard allowance off us and told us it was safe to work down there now because of their so called high presence in the country (this prevents malaria). The very next day after telling us this they sent us an email asking us to fill in a "proof of life form" just in case we were kidnapped. Everyone moaned about it but accepted it, I didn’t.

So many people in this industry need to grow a set, not just the ROV but the UK oil industry as a whole.

Anyway, I’m doing my bit now, taking my employer to court over equal pay between myself and the Norwegians who work beside me doing the same job of equal value, have the same job title and are working for the same company. If you have a read at the equal pay act 2010 it’s very interesting. I think a law is much stronger than any trade union.

Even if nothing comes of this, at least I tried.

Fall down seven times, stand up eight, and all that.

[T-Boy]

So many people in this industry need to grow a set, not just the ROV but the UK oil industry as a whole.

I have never seen a truer word written on these forums.
Unfortunately, this is why there is so much fragmentation of the indusrty. This is why used car salemen/women, agencies exploit and so many new ROV job websites crop up….because they can make decent money out of gulable people that are lame and far too shy to stand up for what they know to be right.

I for one have been forced to be an ‘I’m alright jack’ as do many others, because I will not be held back by or be taken the mickey of by others, free riding on my experience nad knowledge.

When will people wake up and smell the salts?
Realise that the money they are excepting as an acceptable day rate is far below the real figures. And be brave enough to say NO?
Never IMO, because the people lucky enough to get in the industry ‘recently’ don’t have the savvy or slightest industry awareness or business acumen to even get paid what they (may) deserve.

Agencies, job/head hunters love you all, you are feeding their hands for free…
Why do you think (If you do think) there are so many new ‘chancers’ and web sites popping up. YOU are easy targets.

Am I ranting? Damn right, because it grips my sh!t too think that a professional, niche market of people can achieve so little collectively…..THINK ON
😉

[James McLauchlan]

These are issues that IROVA was going to address… given enough momentum and time.

[Mr W]

Do we even need a union for this? Employment tribunals are free and the law is the law.

Can anyone tell me why Norwegians get a better deal just because they have unions/collective agreements. Ok the unions set the bar and they won’t back us on our problems, but for what I can see with regards to the equality act 2010 then this is direct racial discrimination. Even a quick google search on Norwegian law and they seem quite strict on discrimination.

Have a quick read at these links.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ResolvingWorkplaceDisputes/DiscriminationAtWork/DG_10026665

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/your-rights/gender/sex-discrimination-your-rights-at-work/equal-pay/equal-pay-your-rights/

It all seems too easy a case, am I missing something here?? Or is the extreme lack of testicles comment correct?

[James McLauchlan]

Do we even need a union for this? Employment tribunals are free and the law is the law.

UK divers use a union. It works for them.
UK ROV don’t use a union – They are getting shafted!
Oz Divers and ROV use a union. It works for them.
Norwegian Divers and ROV (I think) use a union. It works for them.

An employment tribunal is going to make very little difference. The work is offshore.. outside the 12 mile limit. UK employment legislation pretty much stops at the 12 mile limit except for HSE and HMRC.
Trying to get a shore based employment tribunal to act on offshore issues, such as pay parity, is pretty much a hiding to nowhere. It wouldn’t surprise me if they have no jurisdiction concerning employment in the UK CS (aka international waters) let alone be able act on employment issues/pay parity in the Norwegian offshore sector.

The way UK law stands for the offshore game at present, as far as employment goes, is:

Any foreign national can enter the UK to work offshore without a work permit in place.

If the law is that slack on letting foreign nationals work in the UK sector you can imagine how little influence an employment tribunal would have.

That’s why unions have more success than any other option.

You might have more luck in Norway than the UK.

[Mr W]

Yes I seen that on the legislation.gov

Clutching at straws here now, but what about on crew change/mobilising/de mobilising in UK. When your in the jurisdiction then the law should still stand if your there for an hour or a week?

[Mr W]

Read this, can’t find an outcome for it, maybe they realised they wouldn’t win and offered him equality?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6263202/Geordie-oil-worker-claims-race-discrimination.html

[James McLauchlan]

Yes I seen that on the legislation.gov

Clutching at straws here now, but what about on crew change/mobilising/de mobilising in UK. When your in the jurisdiction then the law should still stand if your there for an hour or a week?

A bit of barrack room lawyer type advice here but I’ll give it a stab:
Yes. I would suggest that when within the 12 mile limit, and not signed on a ships crew, you would fall under mainland employment legislation even though you may be on a ship. Therefore, normal mainland employment legislation should apply. My understanding about being signed on as ships crew is you must fill an appointed mariners position on the vessel. Project staff may be on the POB but they are supernumeraries, not ships crew.

Ref foreign nationals, on a visitors visa, working on a vessel (on deck, in a office etc.) whilst alongside in UK waters.
Technically they are in breach of their visa conditions and should only work within the 12 mile limit under a work permit. I believe foreign visitors can be sign onto a vessel as a supernumerary but should not lift a finger onboard whilst inside the 12 mile limit. Companies have been flouting this for years.
I would think Marine crew would be fine but project staff not.

It seems immigration aren’t that interested in chasing that up either.

[Mr W]

An extract from a tribunal…

Claims are being pursued in the Employment Tribunal. A
preliminary issue was the question of whether the regulations extend beyond the 12-mile
offshore limit of UK territorial jurisdiction. The employment tribunal ruled that they do. The
employers appealed this decision. The Government then intervened and made regulations in
force from 1 October 2006 clarifying that they do apply beyond the 12-mile limit.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:kWc8utO2brMJ:www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01001.pdf+Appeal+No.+UKEATS/0074/05/MT&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjvzdnxjrFQnI0uUtKAIlbfngBoXWnXpPxgKzraGMA8xcyBiV-v7QQBEREdPtdM9bIaCgzvDAMrKBbNK70BSw0Hf-nACloDKODnj7yutEhvz8nVV79LAArvkrlicgS43oBSPPm6&sig=AHIEtbT1qzpoIvFYXPnNI_TYnvxjhMEcGw

[Author]

Posts