Pay cut due to the economic downturn. Why?

[Scott Beveridge]

ROV raving whatever…,

The dayrates will go down the toilet if we don’t stand up against (some huffy-puffy-chested) management or agencies. Is it the usual attitude of "I’m awright Jack – f_ _ k the rest". If one wants to be abused, feel free to but you won’t work with me if I can stop you.

[Andy Shiers]

Ditto ! 😈

[James McLauchlan]

Maybe the companies are hoping to get a bunch of guys hired for less than the market price and hope they won’t tell or find out how much everybody else is being paid ?

This is often the case. I know of one agency that states, in the joining instructions, Do not discuss your day rate with others!! If you don’t talk with others about your rate you will never know whether you are on a winner or being seen off. Just what they want I would suggest.. I have always discussed my rate with others and survived quite nicely on it.

I will also add…. in 23 years offshore I have never worked for less than the previous years. I never will.

[Scott Beveridge]

James,
Agreed and correct at the time of press… And much to the chagrin of one or 2 ops. mgr. or GM’s, I haven’t decreased my dayrate EVER. But to be honest with you all, I ALMOST dropped it by $15 a little while back. I then, promptly kicked myself in the backside and said WAIT. And for the benefit of the younger ones…. I’ll answer your question before you ask, the answer is YES, the companies and agencies will, in fact, look at that slight reduction no matter who it is. Don’t do it…. talk to your bank and cut a deal with them first (if you need the dosh).

[DJansen]

Maybe the companies are hoping to get a bunch of guys hired for less than the market price and hope they won’t tell or find out how much everybody else is being paid ?

This is often the case. I know of one agency that states, in the joining instructions, Do not discuss your day rate with others!! If you don’t talk with others about your rate you will never know whether you are on a winner or being seen off. Just what they want I would suggest.. I have always discussed my rate with others and survived quite nocely on it.

I will also add…. in 23 years offshore I have never worked for less than the previous years. I never will.

Yep me too.. It’s good to talk about pay.. That way if everybody is on the level it’s harder for the companies/agencies to try to shaft guys.. Not to mention the many times we’ve had some numpty come out on a high rate cos of lack of personel.. Been a good way to push other more useful guys rates up to match. That ‘don’t discuss’ nonsense used to be cos agancy types were making more than company guys.. Now they don’t want you to talk cos many of the company guys are making more than the agency guys even though they have the full time staff benefits..

Many of the agencies don’t represent us as well as they should now, they are more concered with getting ‘mass body’ contracts at fixed rates.. Not much room for negotiations these days… Keeping stumm about your rate only makes this worse…

[James McLauchlan]

I believe I am correct in saying that another group of employees (also working in subsea construction and inspection – namely the divers) will not be taking a pay cut (or at least those working in the North Sea won’t). Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[liddelljohn]

I saw the pay cut KULTURE when i was in telecoms it ruined the industry , ended up with guys paying to go to work for peanuts.

In 1997 i was a Line of sight engineer on £300 a day + perdiem and transport, accomodation,expenses etc by 2001 I was being offered £200 a day and pay my own transport ,hotels food ,insurance when work was overseas . In effect earning Zero when one had to rent a 4x4r to get to sites ,airfares ,hotels.Project became battlegrounds the companies became really bad to work for that is why I moved to ROV work.I will fight tooth and nail to protect this industry from such stupidity.

[Scott Beveridge]

James,

The divers haven’t taken a paycut in SEA but I think (for the most of them) they haven’t seen the end-of-year pay rise.

[DJansen]

I’ve got quite a few mates doing both sat & air work.. They are busy as fook at the moment.. One fella I know has been away 6 weeks got back home had 6 days off and has gone back straight into Sat.. 1200 USD a day in Asia.. Not as much as the North Sea pays but where else can you get so much time in the bin ? Not something I’d want to do anymore but shows that there isn’t any fooking downturn…

[Scott Beveridge]

I saw the pay cut KULTURE when i was in telecoms it ruined the industry , ended up with guys paying to go to work for peanuts.

In 1997 i was a Line of sight engineer on £300 a day + perdiem and transport, accomodation,expenses etc by 2001 I was being offered £200 a day and pay my own transport ,hotels food ,insurance when work was overseas . In effect earning Zero when one had to rent a 4x4r to get to sites ,airfares ,hotels.Project became battlegrounds the companies became really bad to work for that is why I moved to ROV work.I will fight tooth and nail to protect this industry from such stupidity.

Good for you Liddle! This site needs to have more guys with the "No! stick yur pay where the sun don’t shine" attitude. Any others? And to you huffy-puffy-chested GM’s and ops. mgrs., "I do hope there’s quite a lot more of us!"

[rigwash]

james, as usual you are not wrong

the divers will not be taking a pay cut.

we must ask ourselves why is this. also why did they do so well in getting their rates a year or 2 ago.

then instead of all the huffing and puffing on this thread we follow suit.

i think it has something to do with testosterone and the size of testicles and the ability to stick together .
the first step in uniting and sticking together starts with camaraderie on the job. Being friends with your work mates and sticking up for each other.

not the back stabbing , each for his own, whinging, and blow assing we seem to see in the ROV industry.

i wish it weren’t so but it is

i read all this negative rant on here about pay cuts, loss of allowances etc and think what the f88k is this. Are the guys wishing this to happen or what, are we running scared before the event oe what. Do people on here not consider that all the op’s managers read all this stuff. We are just getting them ideas and getting them in a mind set to do these things.

common lads, cheer up a bit, act a bit positive and get after it. Act as if we deserve what we get now and persue more. project a positve image of our trade.

[Scott Beveridge]

Rigwash,

Please see some of my "rants" on the Yuni0n thread. The fact that "I am a radical, poop-stirrer" (quote-unquote from a huffy-puffy-chested one) cost me a job – good riddance! Yes, "pal", you read it correctly, good riddance!

In any event, my "rants" are basically what you state above… shall we start it all up again?? I’m ready for it. Quetion is, are most of the other ROV dudes / dudesses ready to stand up to the huffy-puffies? Re: orifice wallies… Any solidarity is welcome!!!!

[DJansen]

It gets harder every year to get any camaraderie generated and as for working with mates thats nigh on imposible.. Either cos all the ‘good’ guys are spead thinly over several jobs and you only get to work with newbies/trainees.. Or (like on a job I did recently) the Supt actively did his best to seperate blokes who were mates or got on well together.. Wouldn’t want anybody to have fun out there… Of course the knob-end failed to realise that guys that have worked together in the past and are mates make a great ROV team. They trust each other and don’t need to second guess each decision..

Back in the day when there were far fewer ROV guys everybody knew almost everybody or had at least heard of them (certainly in Asia anyhow) It was much easier to find common ground with the guys you were working with.
It was only after returning to work in Europe I noticed how incohesive the teams were.. Loads of backstabbing and blokes doing their best to make guys on their shift/team look like fools.. without realising they were making everybody (including themselves look foolish)

The chances of getting these knobs to think of the industry as a whole is completely futile… Seeing guys book their xmas vacation a year ahead of time deliberately to fook up their back to backs time off and other similar nonsense. You can’t even get a crew of 6 guys to agree on cabins or the quality of the food let alone stick up for better pay… 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

[James McLauchlan]

I wouldn’t go as far as naming the stuff discussed (before this post) as negative rants. What I, and a few others, are highlighting is how hard it is for individuals to negotiated decent rates when they remain just that… individuals!

I’m going to rant now though…. possibly in a negative way

Pay cut due to the economic downturn. Why?

Start of Rant…….

It’s not hard to see at all who is having the last laugh when it comes to what rates are being paid to ROV personnel. However, Those very same companies are not having the last laugh when it comes to divers pay and conditions.

I’m not going to go into the whole uni0n recruitment thing again because, quite simply, when a recruitment drive was made on here last year (with me involved) there were no real takers, plus no one was keen to assist. The end results was a trickle of members joining the RMT but no further activity. Hell, there is even a specific branch prepared to help ROV get this all ironed out! It’s all there on a plate and yet very few could be bothered to pick up the phone and spend a few quid to help protect their future income.
For those of you too blind to see, it is the very same uni0n that the UK divers use to negotiate their rates and conditions (successfully I might add) and it’s that uni0n which could have been doing the very same for all the individuals now wondering why they are being offered crap rates by the ROV companies and agencies on a take it or get no work basis!

As I said (long ago) it always makes sense to negotiate from a position of strength when times are good… that was the time to get an agreement in place not start thinking about it now when it’s too bloody late. I have pretty much given up on this as things have moved on for me, with have two companies to run onshore, but I will add that (as an ex Sat Diver) I am less than impressed (to put it mildly) with the way people in the ROV game seem to think that being Jacks! is the way forward in the long term. It’s not, and now those very same people (with individualist approaches) will suffer financially.. Explain that to your wife and kids!

No! the economic downturn is not an acceptable reason for pay cuts, the barrel has risen since the start of 2009, many oil majors are still going ahead with sub-sea projects paid for with very high oil prices,
The barrel is around 50 dollars, the Oil companies are rolling in cash dividends are still being paid and their investors are pretty happy. The subcontractors (ROV companies/agencies) are trying it on, but no one person, sat at home acting alone, will make a jot of difference.
The sooner the ROV guys n Gals offshore realise that the batter.

Collectively, you may make a difference but I am no longer available to help co-ordinate such an idea here or anywhere else for that matter. I gave it my best shot when I had the time. Now I don’t have the time available.

So guys n Gals…. Battle the rates from your armchair at home (alone) and see how you get on. If anything some of you should consider a career in diving where at least you might meet people who are prepared to work together for a common cause… Decent pay and decent conditions, no matter what the financial climate is perceived to be by companies and agencies.

………..End of rant

[Scott Beveridge]

Good "rant" James! Better than some of mine… In any event, last year I lost quite a few hairs after all the pulling…. The deafening silence or lack of interest / brass cajones did me in… Indeed ladies and germs, we lost the chance last year! Hummmph… and I lost a half-way decent job because of my diatribe as well…. cheers!

[Author]

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