seafarers earnings deduction, taxman headache

[Savante]

fight the machine buffel. glad to see the onion is lending a hand though.

[bluemoon]

Buffel & Numpty
Nothings changed in my circumstances despite correspondance arguing my case with HMRC, the Accountants state sit it out their trying it on.
Despite arguing all the pros & cons that I should be treated as an employee for tax purposes and HMRC stating that the argreemet between Agency & PAYE worker being an "unofficial administrative procedure" and NI contributions should not have been deducted by them. It has come to my attention that some agencies had an agreement in writing from a local tax office where they are allowed to deduct employers NI on behalf of the worker then operate a PAYE system.
This could be the trump card but I as like you have spoken to my union. I also have not caved into payment demanded by the HMRC, but as the issue cannot be treated as an individual case i’ll see what happens for now. I believe investigations by the HMRC are going further.
But if I was a PAYE agency worker for any great length of time claiming SED i’d be worried, fortunately for myself I only worked PAYE through an agency for about 15 months so the SED in question for that time is not a great deal, but i’m glad I chose to work direct as staff a few years ago & didn’t stick too long with an agency.

[Buffel]

Bluemoon, like you I am fortunate that the period concerned is less than 12 months as I returned to staff with a company in the december of the year concerned and only worked agency for 18 months total.I also believe if I had a longer period as agency I would be very worried indeed as depsite assurances from the Agency concerned that this issue should be disapearing by now,the tax man seems to be like a dog with a bone now and rather than going quietly is demanding even more information than originally asked.latest demand arrived saturday morning requesting again my terms and conditions of engagement with the agency and also they are "trying to understand what it is that I do and what control there is over my activities!" The fact that I have always been either staff PAYE or through one Agency PAYE is described as not determining how I was engaged by the Agency concerned.I am offshore from Monday so my wife is being left to start the next round of phone calls……

[bluemoon]

Buffel,
Phone the tax officer tell them your offshore & you cannot reply to their demands until you return home as you need to discuss it with your advisors this should buy you a little more time.
Then when you return & do reply ask them to explain as to the reasons why they believe you do not qualify for SED, as you consider yourself to be enaged offshore as an employee.

[Buffel]

Bluemoon, I am not too concerend about the fact I am away, I am leaving SK Tax to deal with this issue, all I would be doing is trying to get anymore info from a certain person at the Agency as to wtf is going on as this was not as was expected.Meetings were being held by the agency and HMRC with regard to this issue, and then trying to tie up a response via SK as to what we do next. Like you I was under the impression that going PAYE made me a defacto employee as my NI etc was deducted at source along with EMPLOYERS NI contributions,and as Numpty mentions I have no employers Liability insurance so how do they now arrive at the conclusion that we are Self employed,If this is the case then surely the error lies with the Agency and should be sorted out between HMRC and the agency as the position of PAYE should not in fact have been allowed in the first place,again,not our error. I contacted the RMT in August and was advised that I could contact certain employment Solicitors,but dont feel that I am at that point yet.More as this unfolds…..looks like it could be a long running issue unfortunately.

[bluemoon]

Would this be a agency recently sold for a tidy sum therefore trying to keep their noses clean until the period of due diligance has passed & the takeover deal has been finalised.

[rovnumpty]

Thats a big 10-4 bluemoon.

both myself and buffel were working for same agency.

Makes it even stranger as said agency has a division that deals only with the legal profession.

Would have thought they’d have been straight in there with lawsuits and injunctions against the taxman.

Especially considering how much business they could lose if people don’t want to work for them offshore anymore!

Do you think they put as much effort into investigating tax dodging fat cat company chairmen?

[Buffel]

So where does this leave us…

[rovnumpty]

You’re all going to love this.

Letter from the taxman this morning.

Quote

‘Based on information supplied by UKPS offshore, they consider their ROV operatives to be self employed.’
‘UKPS offshore advise that tax and national insurance are, if specifically requested deducted from their operatives to assist the operative but without prejudice to his fundamental staus of self employment’

So there you go. PAYE doesn’t mean your an employee. Just that your self-employed and paying UKPS for the priviledge of taking all your tax and a bit more.

Haven’t spoken to UKPS yet, but I will be.

[pipetracker]

Looks like UKPS have stabbed all their (paye) guys right between the shoulder blades with that one. I wonder if the same applies to the other agencies in which case where will it end. Unlike Buffel I’m considering switching from staff to agency but now I’m not so sure. Maybe I’ll just go and sit on the fence that Numpty used to sit on……

[Buffel]

well welll well, UKPS have a letter signed by the regional director of HMRC for East Anglia stating that as PAYE ROV Personnel we are employed. UKPS Are currently unwilling to release this letter.So what now…..HMRC Norwich have agredd that we are EMPLOYED centre 1 disagree. UKPS have in writing a statement from HMRC saying we are employed.

[Buffel]

as an add on, due diligence was completed in August, UKPS has now been aquired and is part of the Triton group, Chris Kemp remains a director of this group.

[TheBaron]

Why don’t you all just go freelance and by-pass all this sh1te? ❓

[luckyjim37]

Why don’t you all just go freelance and by-pass all this sh1te?

I think being freelance seems to be the problem. If you are freelance you have two basic options being self employed and not qualify or setting up as a ltd company and then employing yourself as an employee.

But that might put us on shakey ground. Maybe UKPS should make a post on here and clarify there position on the matter and also maybe the other big agencies could advise us all on the matter.

This does seem to have the potential to affect a lot of people.

[rovnumpty]

To keep everyone updated

UKPS are apparently in talks with Centre 1 regarding our employment status. They say we were definetly employees at the time.

If that is the case, it means someone at Centre 1 made up the statement that supposedly came from UKPS that I posted earlier.

Anyone know if that can is a criminal act?

[Author]

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