Pay cut due to the economic downturn. Why?

[mind-when-this-was-fields]

Well said James,
I know guys with XLX/XLS experience but I also know they would not work for £350 a day as a sub eng or supervisor!!!
Your ‘client’ is going to struggle to get anyone of a decent calibre if they are going to pay that, especially if you expect them to work in Norway??
No uplift for Norway??
The old saying you get what you pay for comes to mind!!

[Scott Beveridge]

Indeed T-Boy, indeed. What planet is this guy from?? Not too many XLS and XLX experienced personnel?? What serial number is Perry up to now for XLX’s??? Oh, I get it now… Is it because he thinks not too many ROV guys know that XLX’s are ethernet based (along with a few others as well)??? Mind-boggling!

[DJansen]

Well like I said before I’d rather relax at home till they wake up to the fact that experienced personel are experienced enough to know what they are worth… They need to remember that multi million dollar XLS/X won’t look so shiny when Johnny Newbie runs it thru the vessels thruster or wraps it round the pipeline half a dozen times… Must be the only industry that is willing to risk it’s expensive capital assets in the vain hope of saving a few hundred bucks a day on experienced and capable manpower.. Thank fook they only own ROV’s and aren’t running the airlines..

As ‘Fields’ said.. Plenty of exp Triton guys around (I’m one of them) but for 350 a day they are ‘havin a laugh’ Noggie Tax, No Uplift and a Cheap Ass dayrate … What next ? Pay your own flights ? Supply your own food ?

Damn I feel sorry for the Client… Lets all have a whip round for the oil companies…. 😆 😆 😆

[Scott Beveridge]

Djan,

Said it before… I’m just rubbing my hands together for when (and they will…) these cheap-charlie ops.mgrs. & proj. mgrs. to have a Joe Newbie-one-year-wonder out there and call and say, "Ummmm… (usually begins with this jaw-jacked utterance), (insert experienced guy name here), can you help us out here?"

[Clive Hutchings]

Hi James,

agreed inexperienced in this market and learning fast appreciate any help I can gain whcih will in turn benefit those that remain in the market. I agree with James with the amount of trainee / junior applications I’m getting. I have too many!! sub 2 years exp.

Our recruitment agency has lost 25% of its staff in the last 3 months thats 28 people! Mainly inexperienced and junior staff the same thing will happen in this world. The experienced and focussed shines through though I am also hearing from the client side that there is a renewed emphasis on quality/integrity with some larger companies focusing on more vigourous efforts to ensure professionalism and maturity.

If those experienced XLX, XLS guys are out there and you want to name your rate then I’m happy to try it on but I cant promise anything and the last thing I want to do is break promises to you.

cheers

Clive

At least ROVjobs added some valuable insight into the thread for those that need it. It’s quite refreshing to actually see an agency representative give some sort of explanation/reasoning behind their approach.

Of course all slots can be filled with the right kind of experience if the correct rate is on offer. Too many times in the past have I heard Ops managers say they can’t get a replacement. I think a better way of seeing that is, they can’t fill the slot for the money they are offering. Try GBP 750/day for an experienced Tech and the slot would be oversubscribed in short order!

Many companies are trying to take commercial advantage of the (land based) recession by quoting it as the reason for the lower rates on offer. The ploy is so transparent I am surprised people are even contemplating the lower rates. The Operators and companies should be ashamed of themselves, but I doubt of they are or ever will be.

In the UK (at least) the price of a tank of fuel at the pumps has risen, some in part to government taxes and some in part to operator imposed rises. On average oil has seen an increase since the start of 2009 and is holding aroun USD50.00/barrel. Soon, you will hear more about some of the profits made by the Oil majors in 2008 and how they are keeping their shareholders happy.

The offshore industry is undergoing some shrinkage but is otherwise currently healthy, so don’t let anyone try and convince you that it isn’t.

One thing that is apparent though is the glut of new ROV trainees (or those so called PTII’s with one job or two from last year) sniffing around for work. In part, I feel this over subscription was driven by the previously high price of oil, increased offshore activity as a result, and the training schools popping up left right and centre looking to make a quick killing by oumoing out huge amounts of so called PTII’s.
The rush is now over and for the moment oil has settled around $50.00. I can see the industry settling down to a little less activity than seen in the last few years. Training schools will shut their doors, the glut of ROV labour will thin out and some semblance of normality may return.
In short the short term bubble has burst and only those with genuine experience and talent will survive. Nature has been like that forever and the offshore game is no different.

To those of you with little experience and not getting a sniff of work… You are most likely part of the excess that will be shed through natural selection. Start looking at your options away from this game.

To those of you with a shed full of experience hang on in there for the best rate, just as some of the more established players are already doing. It will come around but not quite as soon as many are hoping.

Some hard words, and maybe not what some people want to read, but it needs to be said rather than let a whole pile of people suffer in the hope that all will be well.

[mind-when-this-was-fields]

http://www.offshore247.com/news/art.aspx?Id=13435
Rather interesting reading 😀
Yep, so revenues are down so we all have to dig in and reduce rates to help the majors haha
Funny but when the prices were sky high you never heard of the majors handing out big money to the minions…..

[Clive Hutchings]

They never do!!

http://www.offshore247.com/news/art.aspx?Id=13435
Rather interesting reading 😀
Yep, so revenues are down so we all have to dig in and reduce rates to help the majors haha
Funny but when the prices were sky high you never heard of the majors handing out big money to the minions…..

[James McLauchlan]

Clive. Stick with it. At least here you may gain the kind of knowledge that might work in your favour and not only help you, but also the people you are trying to act on behalf of.

Guys n Gals… reading between the lines, it appears that Clive is prepared to go back to his client(s)with suggested rates.
For those that may be inclined to work for a genuine rate, you might wish to send your expected rate to him in the first instance.
I would consider last years rates (+ a reasonable percentile increase) as a starting point. Quote silly money and it will be blown out of the door in the first instance. In that case you’ll not improve your chances (or any agency) of making the deal happen.

I know there are many good/experienced ROV people out there that they expect a reasonable rate.

Employers/Ops managers
I feel that you might wish to stop pussy footing around, trying to save a few bucks, and admit that offering a fair rate for the job (for the right people) will increase your profitability (and sustainability of your systems) in the long run.
This cheap shot approach, of using cheaper less inexperienced people on jobs in the false hope that it will save money, will only end in tears.
Pull your heads out of the sand and fix the problem or your company may be the next one down the pan! Oh yes.. and as a result you as an ops manager may well find that it’s you looking for a new job!

best regards

James Mc

[DJansen]

That’s a good point James.. But funny though it seems. It apears that many Op’s managers don’t see lost subs and damaged equipment as detremental to their career. They write reports and bemoan the quality of staff and end up with a promotion.. Let’s face it. Most office staff are ‘failed’ offshore types or blokes that never even made it that far.. If you are good offshore or any use operating/repairing the vehicles the companies can’t afford to waste you in ‘the office’… Pencil pushers and bean counter types are ten a penny… useful, practical and experienced offshore hands are as rare as rockin horse shite… Blokes in the office are only interested in their ‘career’ and making themselves look good.. .. Too bad most of them don’t realise if they paid decent rates they’d get good staff and the rest would be easy… we’d make them look good and they’d have an easy life… Remember the days of faxing a one page report once a Month ? My first boss told me, If you have to call the office for a solution, you’re the wrong man for the job
They didn’t want us to call.. just get it fixed and get on with the job… Nowadays you can’t do anything without consulting some ‘tech manager’ johnny. 🙄 Just in case he get’s upset…

[Scott Beveridge]

Clive,

Yes, I agree with James and believe that you may try to make a difference. Keep the brass cajones on and I wish you the best of luck! Shame I don’t have an OLF… maybe another one, another time…

James,

I can think of many mngr types that should be / should’ve been out the door yonks ago.

Djan,

Remember those days very well… where we, the backbone of the company, the moneymakers – keepers, were given a system to "micro-manage" and treat it as our own… remember that? Where da eff did that go? And at the end of a job (usually well done) more than just an atta boy and a pat on the head. Said it before, the industry is going down the toilet. Remember when you had: 1 x ops. mgr., 1 x marketing dude, 2 secretaries (one for accts.), 1 x GM/marketing, 1 x shop dude, and 1 x purchasing dude / dudess for…. drum roll…. 8+ ROV systems and up to 100 ROV personnel. Seems it’s the other way around now… sad

[James McLauchlan]

Interesting stats on this thread.

Over 2600 reads and only 54 replies!

The numbers say the thread grabbing a lot of attention, but not too many people willing to pitch in and air their views.

[Ray Shields]

Interesting stats on this thread.

Over 2600 reads and only 54 replies!

The numbers say the thread grabbing a lot of attention, but not too many people willing to pitch in and air their views.

Or a lot of them are people who have started in the last 2 or 3 years and dont have the experience behind them to know any better about pay 🙂

[Anonymous]

In my opinion the agencies are trying to get us out on less, to help fund their mistresses and nights out on the piss at the titty bars.

I also disagree with the "newbie" theory as I see a lot of guys that have been in the industry 10 years, 20 years, that have managed to bullshit their way through. 10 years in and can not fix anything, just stir the pot, or run away "Im mechanical not electrical (or vise versa)" This usually seems to be accomplished by being a barfly friend of someone on board.

There are also a lot of guys that need to retire due to health/age issues, but due to the reasons stated above…they are unable to retire. That’s ok when they start dropping dead on the deck the companies will have to start taking a harder look at those medicals they make us take every year.

Rant for the day complete.

[Scott Beveridge]

Galleon,

I agree with what you say above… there are BS artists (old hands) still in the industry. I’ve seen too many of em’. Guys that have only one discipline, can’t fly around a barn, and talk about themselves incessantly.

But I’ll add this bit to your "rant" above…. there are some of us (and I’m not getting on a soap box, getting huffy-puffy-chested, or patting myself on the back) who ARE needed re: ol’ farts. Without us, there would be a return of 1986, 1991, & 1996-7 disasters involving safety (personnel) & loss of assets.

[Andy Shiers]

Interestingliy enough I looked back on your views and critiicisms Galleon and it appears you have one big chip on your shoulder in regarding "Old Farts" 😕
Did something ……………………… happen to you ?
was it a ………….. Bad experience 🙄
In regards to James original thread I’m one of those "middle aged farts"
(Not to be confused with an "Old fart" but still with plenty of experience)
And I am "hanging in there" for a better rate.
But your idea of medicals being more stringent , WOW 😯
If you put everyone through a commercial diving medical that works offshore in the North Sea , it would create a massive void in the OIL and Gas Industry worldwide 😕
There would only be a sixth of the workforce medically fit and then you , Galleon , can be a proficient Supervisor or Superintendant wowing all the Greenhorns with your undoubted prowess as a ROV expert in the field 😀

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