Pay cut due to the economic downturn. Why?

[James McLauchlan]

There are also a lot of guys that need to retire due to health/age issues, but due to the reasons stated above…they are unable to retire. That’s ok when they start dropping dead on the deck the companies will have to start taking a harder look at those medicals they make us take every year.

I’m trying to see what your point may be in conjunction with the title of this thread. How might "guys needing to retire due to health issues" be connected with the logic behind people taking pay cuts due to the economic downturn?

Are you suggesting that if people were to retire due to health/age issues the rates would improve for the remaining younger ROV operators?

If so, I feel that you may have misjudged the way companies work their pay strategy. Younger people are generally easy to manipulate due to heavier financial commitments… mortgage, car loans, family, kids etc. It’s the older, and generally more financially stable, guys that are able to hang out for better rates. In so doing they help the younger ones by keeping the rates higher than they as a ‘young’ group would ordinarily be able to do alone. The idea is we can be more effective, and get better results as a team, by working together. However, there are some that fail to see the bigger picture, and could upset the equilibrium with ill thought out reasoning. This probably is a result of lack of experience, but that can often be found in younger people.

On the subject of medicals… they are taken every two years in the North sea, not annually. Not sure what that has to do with the thread title either.

Lets try and get back on track…….

Pay cut due to the economic downturn. Why?

[Scott Beveridge]

Yes…

Back to this….

2 items: Greed and insecurity of office personnel. Simple – anyone else agree?

[Anonymous]

Subsea7 blows away expectations with Q1 profits

It said it would continue to focus on efforts to cut costs and improve efficiencies in the supply chain in order to remain competitive.

[subdriver357]

Gentlemen, I’m one of the many that has read this thread and not yet replied. I guess I am a not-quite-newbie, with 5 years experience and only a couple of jobs as supervisor, but comfortable as a Senior pilot-tech. I will agree with anyone who says I am not a superstar technically, but I am competent with a good work ethic, steady in a crisis, and am willing to go the distance when the Sh*t hits the fan.
Maybe I don’t schmooze as well as some: I certainly don’t put others down to self-aggrandize, like a certain supervisor I know who is only interested in his next beer.
But, it’s been close to 6 months since I last got the call. So, maybe I am being weeded out, maybe I am less useful than I thought, maybe the ops manager for the company I usually work for thinks I’m a twat.
The point of all this, is that while I agree, in principle, with all you say about day rates, I am not in a good bargaining position. I expect there are other experienced run of the mill non-supervisors /superintendents who are in a similar position. In fact, I know there are. For those of us who do not command the top day rates that some of you may be able to get, times are tough. And, there does not seem to be a whole lot of light at the end of the tunnel (wherever that may be).
If you are working regularly, good on you. If you get as much work as you want, good on you, again. But if you are like me, and I suspect many of your non replying readers may be in a similar situation, then while principles are great, they do not pay the loans, mortgages, or feed families.
I wish it were otherwise. It burns my ass to hear about completely unqualified sons of managers taking jobs so that those who have “paid their dues” lose what might have been a regular rotation, for less than $100 US/day. But it is happening as we speak.
Taking the high road is all very well, and I will continue to refuse dangerous locations with awful dayrates, (Scott, you know what I’m talking about), but it ain’t easy

[Scott Beveridge]

I do actually and sincerely feel sorry for quite a few guys in your predicament. If it were up to me (and this is way off the wall – for those of you who do know me – for even my abstract self…), I would put everyone in all companies on a decent salary with a time-in-service-pay-grade table w/safety & production bonuses, shut ALL the doors for a while until these giga-profit oil companies start whimpering, and double-bubble the charge. Solidarity 1 – Individualism 0!!!! Sounds a bit like socialism? Hmmmm… mebbe…. And there’s some management that won’t hire you for these types of views….

Good luck dude. Try to diversify (know it’s hard during these times) to other non-O&G occupations during the interim….

[James McLauchlan]

and once again… it shows that an individualistic approach will never work. The North Sea divers are looking at a pay rise this year. The Norwegian divers are on even better rates. Why? Because they work together as a collective force.

The same could have happened for ROV in 2008/2009

I see, and feel, the pain of some people on here but have no sympathy for others that simply refused (in 2007/2008), to admit that getting an industry agreement on pay and conditions in place whilst the times were good (by bargaining from a strong position) was the way forward.
When the money was pouring in, the short sighted bods couldn’t give a damn for anyone else, however as this thread is now showing, many of those individuals are paying for that short sighted ‘I’m all right jack’ approach where it hurts.

If you want to work offshore, want good pay and conditions plus wish to work with people that look after their interests as a group go diving…

If you want to be seen off by the companies, when they see fit, stick with ROV’s and negotiate alone from your armchair at home.. or maybe in a few months on your mobile, parked up by the side of the road from the seat of a Tesco or Sears HGV truck.

Talk about dragging cattle to water…. what does it take for people to realise that the way forward is collective bargaining?

Unless of course you, as an individual, find it acceptable to have to take a pay cut in an industry that is apparently not suffering from the pain of the land based recession.

best regards
James Mc

[Scott Beveridge]

James,

Thank you for the above… I’m tired of getting a headache from bangin’ me noggin on the table…. You guys / gals should really get off your backsides and do something about this… Hmmmmmm… for the "N. Sea Tigers / Tigresses", YOU, of all people, have the ways and means by joining the Yuni0n dedicated to the ROV sector!!!! For meself? Not much will come out of it for me (yet) because: a.) I rarely work in the N. Sea. b.) live abroad. And c.) HOPING to retire within 500 – 600 more working days.

With the exception of one GM, the companies haven’t given me a hard time about my diatribes concerning the Yuni0n.

ANYONE ELSE have the slightest interest in this – go to Uni0n forum here on ROV World!!!!!!!!! PLEASE PM ME!!!!!

[turtle]

The approach by the agencies is now, with more lead time and fewer projects, to get all the availables to send in current cv along with "your day rate". Sift through the pack, bean counters choose cheapest day rate, give the Old Regulars one last chance to "take what the client offers". I’ll be waiting for the next wave in a month or two when it’s time to save the contract from the follies of the 3-year-inna-binness-New Soop and the quibbling over a hundred or so on the day rate becomes a silly exercise. Yes, having done about 250 days/year for 07 and 08 provides a cushion…ahhh spring, nice time to smell the roses….

[DJansen]

Yes I have had a rash of Can we have your updated CV and expected dayrate’ calls… Not too many replies.. Guess I’m too expensive.. Oh well another Month enjoying the ‘life of the rich and famous’

Much more of this lifestyle and I might just say bugger it and not bother going back… Early retirement beckons… Can always do a trip sometime in the future when rates perk up… Maybe even sign on for a few Months .. lol

[Scott Beveridge]

Turtle,

I cherish that day when one of the many companies get themselves stuck because Johnnie – one – year – wonder – supervisor gets to a point of losing a contract. One of the, "Ummmm….. can you help us out here?" phone calls where you can say, open the vault laddie! You are gonna pay through the gazoo!

Djan,

I’m green!!!!!

[De-mob]

Unionisation??? Solidarity??? It will never happen!!!
The Rov industry has been going for well over 25 years now and what has come out of it?? NOTHING!
You have had your chance and you’ve blown it!!

Most guys and i say most, have a technical qualification. You are technicians, you are skilled.When you join the Rov industry you spend a few more years in what amounts to be another apprentiship.
You are one of the few departments on a vessel that mobilises your own equipment, maintains your own equipment, repairs your own equipment ,operates your own equipment and eventualy demobilises it,in all weathers i may add, but still you are called Rov operators, not technicians or engineers and paid poor rates.WHY?

You accept poor food, poor accommodation, hours sometimes days of travel then straight onto shift…fatigued or not.Why?

A lot of work has moved to undesirable places and the uplift for the poor and dangerous conditions is being removed, and do you accept it? yes!Why?

Because the companies have got you exactly where they want you.

Ask youselves who did this damage?
You had the chance to develope this industry and move it forward and demand a premium like the divers but the i’m alright jack mentality prevailed over the years and now the price is being paid.

Have you got a leg to stand on or a hope in hell of changing things?NO

The few individuals who are refusing to work waiting for the rate to improve…good on you.

I have been in this industry a long time now and i’m glad that my time is coming to an end. I only see the equipment improving not the attitude of the guys or the rates and nothing is going to change this.

I personally have never had a problem with work through any offshore recession. There will be natural wastage again but it certainly will not be the guys who can do the job or the older operationaly experienced guys.

If you think being unionised will solve your problem then dream on.
The divers have done a brilliant job,but the Rov guys missed the boat.

So sort it or stop bleating.

[Scott Beveridge]

De-mob,

Is the definition of your "handle" cease and desist the mob?? Well, you’re correct! THERE IS NO MOB. There are to many "I’m alright Jacks". And you have mirrored my sentiments to the "T". Still not ONE PM to me concerning a Yuni0n….

[JB2]

I ‘ve commented on this subject many times from contractor to staff position and always from Alright Jack!

I think we need to get away from the diver comparison altogether:-

You do not take a phone call and say yep I’ll go do your SAT job for you £X per day blah blah because you dont have any certs prob dont dive any way and the buisness is way smaller than ours and is rare for somebody not to be known!

Where as and still happens
"Get me another cheap Monkey out of the Box for this crap Job"
This is why each guy protects his job or dayrate or does whatever it takes, stabbing in the back, get rid of this or that Nationality etc etc to survive!!

When and only when we can police none techs too many trainees been sent from the beach to the system from my point of view will we stop the alright Jack attitude because we would then be responsible for team member choice and effectively cut out un-vetted new starts.

So until that day happens you will see Ex pats protecting themselves from Poles/Indians/philipenos/Russians etc etc. by whatever means they can, they dont have the time or world wide power to ever make it a reality. So most Sups protect their own little fifedom with similar Guys and good techs where they can!!

Oh 20 years in and in the Uni0n for the legal aspect realy and try to avoid the North Sea if I can as I’ve done my long cold apprentiship there!

Three Musketiers Ha forget it….!!!

[De-mob]

Like James Mc said, there are 2600 reads and only 54 replies. That speaks volumes to me about the solidarity and the amount of airight jacks around so Scotbeve i would if i were you just chill and laugh at the mugs as you enjoy life and a cool beer.

[James McLauchlan]

Currently

Views: 3452

Replies: 73

Or to put it another way… 2.1% of the total views resulted in a response 🙁

74 replies now I guess, but the point has been made.

[Author]

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