Who trains the Instructors !

[Andy Shiers]

So , where does the basis of these training schools get their experience ?
I mean , ROV’s are NOT all the same , Each ROV manufacturer has different ways of incorperating the communication or propulsion set up ! They all fly differently depending on their shape or load capacity or depending on what the vehicle was built for in the first place 😯
Does a School have the latest up to date ROV’s for the market sitting on a barge offshore next to an adandoned platform ?Does this then justify the money they charge ?
How does a school acquire these said Instructors ?
Are they personnel with thirty or forty years experience that are too old to get their medicals to go offshore ?
How does an "Instructor" who had spent most of his occupation offshore with maybe one or two companies that only speciialise in one particular type of ROV get to be the Wise man to teach ? Who gave that man the "Imca" stamp to say he is qualified to teach new people the "Basics" in ROV’s ?
Who at IMCA has the qualifications to assess these instructors ?

[Ray Shields]

So , where does the basis of these training schools get their experience ?
I mean , ROV’s are NOT all the same , Each ROV manufacturer has different ways of incorperating the communication or propulsion set up ! They all fly differently depending on their shape or load capacity or depending on what the vehicle was built for in the first place 😯
Does a School have the latest up to date ROV’s for the market sitting on a barge offshore next to an adandoned platform ?Does this then justify the money they charge ?
How does a school acquire these said Instructors ?
Are they personnel with thirty or forty years experience that are too old to get their medicals to go offshore ?
How does an "Instructor" who had spent most of his occupation offshore with maybe one or two companies that only specialise in one particular type of ROV get to be the Wise man to teach ? Who gave that man the "Imca" stamp to say he is qualified to teach new people the "Basics" in ROV’s ?
Who at IMCA has the qualifications to assess these instructors ?

No-one. The same way as IMCA does not certify anyone, Instructors do not have IMCA stamps.

IMCA is their own worst enemy. IMCA are a trade organisation – a bunch of companies who got together and thought "lets see if we can come up with standards between ourselves". There is nothing official (goverment, legal or whatever) about them.

Even companies that ARE members of IMCA do not always follow their own standards (e.g. IMCA has 2 grades of Pilot Tech,1 & 2 – how many IMCA member companies have 3,4, even 7!)

They have written a set of (in my opinion VERY low) standards. Schools teach based on these standards, but that does not make anyone taught to these standards "IMCA certified"

As with most other teaching or instructors, if a person gets some teaching qualifications (NVQ A1 Assessor, V1 Verifier etc. in the UK) plus has a suitable background/experience for the knowledge and has a criteria to teach against, then it is reasonable to say they can be an instructor for that particular subject. This is along the same lines as any other company that offers training to the industry.

However these companies teach using criteria which is much more exacting (Manual Handling, COSHH, DP Operator, any other well known NVQ qualification), ROV schools teach against the INCA standard.

Lets take an example of the IMCA standard. Many schools issue a piece of paper that you have met the competencys of IMCA Pilot Tech 2. What do you need to have done for that (a small sample):-

Assist with electrical and mechanical umbilical reterminations, including fibre optic cables.
Test, maintain and operate video systems and lights.

Hwo do the schools demonstrate their competence of this. Change one light bulb, stick a crimp on the end of a cable, press a button on a megger, vatch a VIDEO of someone else terminating a fibre optic connector?

At very best, they should be told they are now TRAINEE Pilot Techs.

Also it continues when you start offshore. Are ALL Supervisors who sign off competency books competent. Have they all done D32 (old standard) or A1 Assessor courses?

[SCUBADOUG]

Seems like the typical supply and demand senario……

[SCUBADOUG]

When there is a big demand for personnel, individuals w/no experience will be instructing. When its slim pickins, individuals w/30 years will be instructing! Standards change damm quick when theres money involved!

[tc1]

Teaching is a science standing on its own merits and skills.It has never been required since the eightys that teachers/instructors have experience of the points they are asked to teach.The skill of a teacher/instructor is to pass predetermined information in a way that the student understands and takes in. 😀

[Scott Beveridge]

Right questions asked, right manuals read, then the right instruction it will be…..

Hmmmm… need to follow through here (obviously). There is a need for trainees to show initiative, be inquisitive, have confidence, ask questions (instead of answering them at the incorrect times incorrectly) pertaining to ANY task taken on, and to DISCUSS with the supv or immediate guy up the ladder WTF to do..

[Andy Shiers]

And there lies the problem 😕
An airline pilot /Fighter pilot or any "Air" pilot for that matter is trained by experienced ( As in he Has flown himself for many years in all aspects or scenerios which then gives him the knowledge to pass on to raw recruits ) personnel.
You don’t expect someone teaching you to just have textbook knowledge of flying a radio controlled airplane and then to find he has never himself flown at night or in fog 😯
Or only to have flown little Cessna planes on a fine blue sky day to know what to do when there is zilch viz and wind turbulance in a Boeing 747 !
Okay lets get away from pilots all together 🙂
How about a surgeon or Fireman or sailor !
You can have an experienced person with thirties behind him but does not have the right teaching skills or " Team player" attitude to teach 😕
Baring in mind that our industry IS specialised work and quite expensive if you "Get it wrong " ! 🙄

[MrSilent]

And there lies the problem 😕
An airline pilot /Fighter pilot or any "Air" pilot for that matter is trained by experienced ( As in he Has flown himself for many years in all aspects or scenerios which then gives him the knowledge to pass on to raw recruits ) personnel.
You don’t expect someone teaching you to just have textbook knowledge of flying a radio controlled airplane and then to find he has never himself flown at night or in fog 😯
Or only to have flown little Cessna planes on a fine blue sky day to know what to do when there is zilch viz and wind turbulance in a Boeing 747 !
Okay lets get away from pilots all together 🙂
How about a surgeon or Fireman or sailor !
You can have an experienced person with thirties behind him but does not have the right teaching skills or " Team player" attitude to teach 😕
Baring in mind that our industry IS specialised work and quite expensive if you "Get it wrong " ! 🙄

So who taught you lostboy or did you just wake up one day and poof in a puff of smoke you could fly a ROV. You seem to be putting two points of view across are you as your avatar suggests just hunting for someone to flame or do you actually have an opinion on what makes a good instructor?, did you have a good instructor?, where did you learn?

tc1 is right in part but teaching is a lot more than just knowing how to stand up in front of your peers. There is the course structure, designing courses, keeping up with the latest developments, background knowledge (which should include what you teach) and the ability to adjust your teaching style depending on the people you are teaching.

So " Who trains the Instructors ! " we are just born in a puff of smoke!

[Scott Beveridge]

Mr. Silent,
As in most of the service industries working either inshore or offshore, when the supply (personnel) is less than the demand, then you can expect a slip in quality… and vice a versa

[MrSilent]

Mr. Silent,
As in most of the service industries working either inshore or offshore, when the supply (personnel) is less than the demand, then you can expect a slip in quality… and vice a versa

I’d agree with that. Just wanted to get an opinion out of MrLost thats all.

[effinreps]

Many months ago I anticipated a shortage of qualified and experienced instructors for all the training schools that were springing up everywhere. I had a genius idea, set up a training school, to train instructors for the training schools.

My school is now set up and ready to go, we are IMCA approved, certified and recognised. The web site is set up http://www.teachucrap.com, and if I can get my bloody epson printer working the glossy brochures promising the earth will be flying out the door very shortly.

How do I get on the course? I hear you ask. Well just slow down a minute boys and girls, sorry to say but we have a very strict screening policy. Only suitable candidates will be allowed to sit the course. So if you are not detained at Her Majesty’s pleasure please feel free to apply.

The cost? Avery reasonable 32k. This price includes full cooked English breakfast on arrival, afternoon snack and evening meal at the Cock and Bull, where certificates for your new career will be handed out. These certificates will be very shiny, and will almost certainly guarantee you a job as a trainee instructor at the very many training schools that are crying out for people like you! 😆

[Scott Beveridge]

Ohhhh, ohhhh !!! I want in Effin’ – me! me! Where do I sign up??? Do you think I can????? Puleeeezzzee take my money!!!!

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 😆 😆 😆 😆

Think of it not as a parody….

[Andy Shiers]

Well thats moving away from the point I was making , was it not ? 🙂
Should I start a new thread saying when is someone classed as experienced ?
Answer to your questioney , I have never stopped learning since I "swam towards the Light" Praise Neptune 😀 In 1986 !
I had Good instructors and absolute Muppets ……..OFFSHORE !
I would say I had an apprenticeship on salary as well as freelance.
Does twenty years plus ( Not counting my depraved and admittedly childish behaviour detour from being biased 😯 ) give me the rights to say I’m experienced 😕
I have flown many of the ROV’s out today and also quite a few of the now extinct ones as well ! Be it small or medium or overly gross 😯
In most conditions around many parts but not all of the world doing basically every concevable thing you can do to an ROV 😯 Some of it quite painful I might add 😕
Does that give me the right to say I’m qualified to teach it in School ?
Am I a good teacher ?
The only people who can say I am ( Or Not ) are the trainees and not so trainees thinking they know everything that have come under my wing 8)
Am I conceited ………….. 8) Hmmmmmmmmm I have to think on that one 🙂
Arrogant , Oooooooh yes , But I do admit it 😆
Am I hunting for someone to flame ……………. 😯
I’m being serious 😯
Errrh Scott , Am I being serious or what !

[effinreps]

Scot,

After an exhaustive interview via PM 😉 your’e in dude. How would you like to pay? Cash, or bankers draft made out to Robin Gits 😀

[Andy Shiers]

Ooooh Effinreps ,
I like that 😆

[Author]

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