Agency day rates.

[Anonymous]

Ive been through this before,but thought about time I mentioned it again.In most professions if you work as a contractor through an agency,you will be paid top dollar,quite a bit more than someone who is on a salary for the company.Why is it that the agencies continue to offer such SHITE dayrates.As someone else mentioned somewhere else here,the going rate for a Sub Engineer through an agency is around £365 per day,that amounts to around $540 USD per day at todays exchange rates.Most companies who pay USD,such as the ones in Singapore pay around $700 USD per day for a Sub Eng,which is around £465 per day.
The agency dayrate doesnt seem to have increased much at all in the last couple of years.What is going on.They must have alot of trainees working for them if they can continue paying such crap rates>>…What do you guys think about it all…..??.

[James McLauchlan]

It’s wrong and that is why there should be a minimum agreed rate per grade to cut out this kind of exploitation, which is what it is.

[Scott Beveridge]

Dude,

Tell them to frqoff!!! That forex excuse sux!!! Think of it this way… they’re all tight-lipped when it’s going their way, aren’t they (they being orifice wallies / plonkers)?????? Parsh on em’!!!!

[Ray Shields]

Supply and demand. If they can get people to work for those rates or the rate the Companies are offering the Agency are reduced, thats all they offer.

You can choose to look elsewhere or just not take the job. Unfortunately thats the reality. Eventually when they cannot get anyone to work for that (or the ones who will work for it are proved not to be able to do the job) then the rates will increase.

[Scott Beveridge]

Ray,

The problem is that this goes (has been going ) on all too often (or since day dot!) and guys / gals need to learn that they can fight off the banks and creditors and scream at these companies and whatnot telling them what to do with their paltry wages. I’d love to see more of this but the poor sods (sodesses) are bone-shivering afraid of the banks / creditors that they, s’s and sss’ss’s, fall deep into that dependence rut and get under the thumb of the banking systems… sad, very sad

[Anonymous]

I suppose the problem is there has been so many trainees saturating the industry,and have gained some experience offshore,so the agencies are now using them,and paying these LOW rates….It looks like the Sterling could become worthless in a year or two,so guess we will all be demanding payment in USD??>

[James McLauchlan]

…It looks like the Sterling could become worthless in a year or two,so guess we will all be demanding payment in USD??>

The $USD had had it’s day. For the UK I guess it will be the € Euro sooner than people think.

Back to agency…. I think the debt/bank idea has merit. I have in the past turned down jobs based on a crap rate but had the financial support to do so. If people allow themselves to get into debt then saying no is not an option. I once had an agency call me for one job with a crap rate and I clearly said no. A few days later they called me back and offered me the same job for the same rate! The answer was still the same. It struck me that if they knew I was still home I would be getting desperate and therefore chanced their arm again.

The other agency ploy is when they say, in defence of a crap rate, that that is all they can offer due to the contract they have with the client. That’s hardly your fault and it should not be for you to have to accept the rate based on that excuse.

My concern is the current massive influx of trainees and what’s just around the corner for all these guys n gals. As oil drops in value (it is already) and they start cutting back on projects (which they will) there will be a glut (and there will be) of only just ‘ex’ trainees looking around for anything they can get . Then there will be pressure on rates as these people take anything on offer to pay their mortgages and credit card debts. The operators and agencies will have a field day.. I can sense them rubbing their hand with glee now, in delightful anticipation of what’s around the corner for them.

This is why I believe that in the UK sector at least a minimum rate should be set now (whilst we are busy) and not when the rates start falling through the floor. The divers managed it eventually and so could ROV if they get together a little more rather than just talk about bad rates, as seems to happen often.

There is a way to settle ROV pay rates by the introduction of an ROV industry agreement such as that which the divers already have in place. If it can be sorted in the UK those rates will most likely become a standard by which other areas of the world will refer to. That pretty much happened in the diving game also.

There is an agreement being formed already. It is being handled by the OILC branch (S100) of the RMT. If you feel that rates are important to you, which, by the very fact that you are reading this would indicate that you do, then you should have your say in it’s development. Rather than wait for it to come out and complain that it isn’t in the form that you would like it to have been go and join the RMT, gain access to the RMT members section of this forum and add your bit.

Or

…………….do nothing and hope that someone else will do it for you and hand it to you on a plate all served up with other nice little frills like holiday pay, safety training allowance, medical allowance etc. Yep! The divers get all that and more!

This all may sound a little flippant but, for years now, I have seen nothing but discussions about crap ROV rates and nobody doing anything about it.
Finally ROV people are joining the RMT in useful numbers (are you one of them?) and things are moving forward. Eventually the agreement will happen, but it needs people like you to get behind it and not simply chat about it in a Forum and log out or, by the time the agreement falls into place, you may be one of the ones being paid crap money and wishing (along with your Mrs and your bank manager) that it had fallen into place a lot sooner.

I have it on good authority that employers are fully aware of the development of an ROV agreement and are quote "crapping themselves". They saw what happened on the diving side and coughed up, after a weak but half hearted struggle. Now look at the pay and conditions divers receive and ask yourself why you should not be on the receiving end of same type of agreement.

The same Uni0n that negotiated on the divers behalf will be doing the negotiating on behalf of ROV. So the end result should be similar.

So… just chat about pay … or do something about it. Your shout.

[dandydon]

Ah huv tae agree on what your saying there James………..BUT….

at the very end o the day

there is always someone willin tae go oot on a job for £20 a day less than someone else.
end of.

regardless of how they run their finances blah blah blah

im nae saying its richt ken, but,
its the simple reality and it will never change.
never.
greed never changes
it hasnae changed in 33 years since i’ve bin bobbin aboot and it’ll nae change in the nixt 33 years

been in offshore industry uni0ns since 1975 but i simply cannae see this current cesspit of an rov industry ever ……….ever ………….getting together as one unified body….a live in hope ken but dinnae hod yir breath

[effinreps]

Hear, Hear!!!!!

[subseascott]

As mentioned on a previous post James I think it would help if it were made clear exactly what sort of numbers the RMT need before the can act on our behalf, how far off they are from reaching these targets & what matters they intend on representing the ROV industry on??

As it is at the moment, the ‘Join the Uni0n’ plea from people could be a never ending task unless progress in recruiting members was made a bit clearer.

[mind-when-this-was-fields]

I agree with whats being said on both sides..
Greed is good for some people!!
On the other hand if you have a set agreement in place it will stop people coming in and undercutting the market(to a certain extent!)
You only have to look at the Norwegian contracts to see the deal they are getting and what can be achieved with COLLECTIVE bargaining!!
i live in hope……………….. 😀

[James McLauchlan]

Ah huv tae agree on what your saying there James………..BUT….

at the very end o the day

there is always someone willin tae go oot on a job for £20 a day less than someone else.
end of.

regardless of how they run their finances blah blah blah

I think you will find that divers do not go out for 20 quid a day less because the rate has been set in the agreement and companies have agreed to pay a set minimum. If there were an ROV agreement in place for the UK sector I feel a similar situation would prevail.

For a while the companies tried to mess with diver grades to try and circumvent the agreed rates but now diver grades are set in stone so that no longer happens. Which is why there have been discussions about the ROV grading system for the agreement.

[James McLauchlan]

As mentioned on a previous post James I think it would help if it were made clear exactly what sort of numbers the RMT need before the can act on our behalf, how far off they are from reaching these targets & what matters they intend on representing the ROV industry on??

As it is at the moment, the ‘Join the Uni0n’ plea from people could be a never ending task unless progress in recruiting members was made a bit clearer.

I agree that it could be clearer. But years back when I joined as a diver we had no clue as to what numbers were required but we joined anyway.

Later (after returning from Asia) I rejoined the RMT as an ROV member. Then I had no idea how many were required to allow the RMT to act on behalf of ROV I simply joined to support whatever was coming. It also gave me legal backing/advice, through Uni0n lawyers, should I ever need it. That alone is worth the cost which equates to around less than half a days pay a year! Some people smoke more than that in Cigarettes a month! Not exactly a cost issue is it?

I can tell you that the OILC branch of the RMT already represent ROV members on the same matters any uni0n does but I sense that there is a drive towards getting in place an ROV industry agreement. That requires recruitment. I feel an agreement alone would go a long way to levelling the playing field on pay rates and the other expenses that go with staying ‘in date’ survival and medical wise.

Anyway.. I have seen something somewhere on numbers for representation. I will try an dig it out and post in the open Uni0n Board.

On a general note.
Some of you may feel in the dark because you cannot see what is being discussed in the ROV RMT members only board. But as the OILC/RMT does not have an ROV discussion board for members the one we have set up is for ROV RMT members only. It is there that discussions are taking place to help shape the agreement. Remember it is an agreement that will be negotiated by a Uni0n for it’s members. That is what collective bargaining is all about. So no bleating if you feel a little left out because you can’t decide whether to join or not. At £178/year (49p/day) it surely can’t be the cost can it? You’d get that back in statutory holiday pay awarded as an result of an agreement. Yes the divers get that too!

[Ray Shields]

At £178/year (49p/day) it surely can’t be the cost can it? You’d get that back in statutory holiday pay awarded as an result of an agreement. Yes the divers get that too!

Err, so do I and so do many others. Who in the UK doesn’t get statutory holiday pay? Working Time Directive – you’re entitled to it.

[James McLauchlan]

…………. Who in the UK doesn’t get statutory holiday pay? Working Time Directive – you’re entitled to it.

From an employee angle I guess you could say that. Of course you get it as an employee because the law is very clear on the matter.

Agency/day rate people don’t. It’s the working time directive that the divers used to get holiday pay added into their day rate agreement in a manner that is shown in hard cash per day rather than hidden.

[Author]

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