Do any ROV companies really care about ‘their’ teams ?

[DJansen]

Just wondered cos seems like many companies don’t try to keep their guys happy.

If the experienced guy was really valued wouldn’t the companies try to retain them..

Very little movement in ‘senior rates’

No perks for Supv’s and Supt’s, poor bonuses and long service awards..

More paperwork, BS and inexperienced trainee types on every job
(yes we do need trainees, but more than one a shift is a liability)

Crap attitude from office if ya don’t like it etc…

Worsening conditions, food and recreation on many vessels

Surely as the oil price is high and every industry magazine says there is a World wide shortage of Experienced ROV guys Shouldn’t the companies be vying for attention with better pay,rewards and bonuses etc.. or at least hand out the odd T-shirt..

Not tsaying there isn’t any work around.. there is heaps.. but why are rates stagnant and HR staff indifferent ?

[rigwash]

man you said it all (hit the nail right on the head)

i really don’t get it, oil at an all time high, shortage of skilled guys, vacant jobs every where etc…

yet……

guys living in shipping containers, eating crap substandard food, working excessive hours (only 1 shift ), cowering when some office wanker raises his voice, having to beg for a crew change that is overdue, no response from the orifice to emails written in a poilte professional way, working at companies on wages 1 to 200 usd less than other companies pay for the same grade.

every body bitching and whinging about it but when you try and make a little stand and need a bit of support (only a like minded email or extra voice of complaint to the orifice, nothing life threatening)…well you know how it goes. …Everybody turns away.

now we are not talking major stuff here, joining unions or stopworks etc. just having a little bit of bottle and at least trying to retain a little bit of respect as a human being. you know, just putting your hand up and saying this is not right. Or giving a bloke a bit of support when he does the same. instead of sniggering behind his back . But this seems to be the mettle of 80 percent of the types you meet in the ROV game. I regret to say,.. but all this talk of unions and getting fair rates that restore parity with other offshore occupations are just that…TALK…until people in the ROV industry get back bones! ROV guys are just a different animal compared to the likes of Divers. Those guys have balls and deserve what they got. We deserve what we got….(sweet F. a)

i wish it weren’t so and i’d love to be proved wrong but thats why the companies are scewing us…..because they can!!!

[DJansen]

Welll taking the last job I was on as an example. Experienced crew, most who had been on the job for a while about 60/40 split Company?Agency guys.. Seems that a few of them weren’t happy with the pay/conditons onboard so had let it be know that they wanted off.. Now considering that some of these guys were ‘key’ personel and that the vessel isn’t exactly a cruise ship.. You’d think that some effort would have been made to placate them… Nope all left and were replaced by new company trainees and PT’s… Company seemed happy enough.. Not worried about increased workload for the existing Supv’s.. In fact probably pretty chuffed as they could continue to charge the client full rate for the newbies.. As long as no major FU’s all happy.. Except the originall crew .. who are even more disgruntled now.. Wonder if they will be able to replace the Supt and SPT’s with trainees ?

Just wondering where you have to go nowadays to work with experienced guys on a decent vessel? for a decent company that looks after its’ guys.. ?

[James McLauchlan]

In answer to the question.

No! Companies do not care about their teams. Please never allow yourself to believe that they do care, no matter what you are being told.
Every now and then you will get an Ops manager that genuinely seems to understand the need to look after a team but, unfortunately, they are few and far between.

Yes! Companies do care about getting the job done with least possible outlay and maximum return but you can’t blame them for doing so when they are in the business of returning maximum profit for their investors not running a charity.

Most UK firms cannot see further than short term profits rather than long term investment in personnel. That is why we have a short fall of experience now. Nothing else to blame other than that strategy.

I agree with the sentiment in this the previous posts but would like to discuss further some of the content posted.

…………now we are not talking major stuff here, joining unions or stopworks etc. just having a little bit of bottle and at least trying to retain a little bit of respect as a human being. you know, just putting your hand up and saying this is not right………..

Joining a Uni0n is not major stuff. ‘Stopworks’ could be considered as major stuff tough.
It is very apparent that companies such as those running ROV projects are not overly keen on Unions because they see them as a threat to the monopoly they have over the people they employ offshore.

Since I have worked in this industry I have tried to maintain ‘respect as a human being’ but doing it as an individual is a non starter. You may be able to make your point and stand your ground, but how many other people will the company or agency call until they get someone that says ‘yes’ to something you are not prepared to so?
I have seen that over and over. As long as people keep thinking that, as individuals, they will make a difference to the industry the situation will not change in our sector of the offshore game.

Right now I would suggest that the last thing the operating companies want to see is all these/us little individuals talking together and coming up with some kind of strategy.

It is very commendable to read about those of you prepared to try and stand your ground on your own, but consider the results of Uni0n influence on operating companies in the diving game. Previously divers were nothing other than individuals looking after their own personal needs.
It wasn’t until they got together as a group that they came up with some results.

In the past, even though both Gina and I were members, I was somewhat disappointed with the RMT and their ability to effectively represent the needs of the offshore industry.
Having recently reviewed the way the OILC are approaching this I have come to the conclusion that the way forward for ROV and associated trades (Inspection, Survey etc) is still via a Uni0n.

This is most definitely where the OILC branch of the RMT steps in. The RMT branch S100 (OILC) is structured specifically to cater for offshore workers in the energy sector, so it is specific to the Offshore Industry (as we know it) which leaves the rest of the RMT to handle general Rail Maritime and Transport representation.

Now imagine the new effectiveness of the RMT with them using the experience of the OILC, as one single RMT branch (S100), with that particular branch geared to do nothing other than represent the needs of all offshore workers.

I have no doubt that since the OILC joined forces with the RMT( early May of this year) they are fast becoming a force that operator companies know they will have to listen too. It’s not just about pay (although that has be counted in) but also about ensuring that ‘Health and Safety at work’ means more than a ‘corporate statement’ to be adhered to when production results deems it OK to do so.
Fair treatment and conditions are also points to pursue.

With the best will in the world you’ll not do that on your own.

…………..i wish it weren’t so and i’d love to be proved wrong but thats why the companies are scewing us…..because they can!!!

They are only doing that because, as you say, they can. It’s an easy thing to do with individuals but not so easy when they need to negotiated with a representative of a cohesive group such as a Uni0n.

To see what I am on about go to the Downloads section (from the menu on the left) download and read the 1st OILC newsletter to see what they are up to.

To be effective the Uni0n needs paying members and input from the likes of you. Pay up and send them your concerns, just as you have posted here to give them an idea of which direction to take.

Without your support of the Uni0n, and their negotiating on your behalf, you will always be a collection of individuals negotiating from a weak standpoint and ultimately playing into the hands of your employers, be that as a company employee or agency employee.

It’s simply not good enough to discuss why companies ‘screw’ people.
Join forces and do something about preventing it.
Or sit on a fence and see how it pans out……

[Anonymous]

Just wondering where you have to go nowadays to work with experienced guys on a decent vessel? for a decent company that looks after its’ guys.. ?

…….Whilst Uni0n’s can be seen as a way forward and have so far been successful in Australia, it is still possible to get good work wherever you want it.

Generally companies don’t care about their boys, but there are a few out there that will look after you alright. The trick is to keep on moving. Don’t hang around for ‘things to change’ if the company is forever talking about improvements. Likewise jump ship if you see that the mob you’re with, who were once good are on the slide.

Good ops managers will always pay top money for good operators, if yours isn’t…move on.

I don’t work in Australia but the money is up there (if you can get a work permit/visa) even after tax. When the North Sea and Africa was top payer I went there. Nowadays the big money is in Asia/Pacific (if you’re with the right operators). So guess where I am?

Rates and conditions have improved from individuals making a stand in the area’s in which I’ve worked. I’m currently getting paid more than ever before, in decent working conditions.

There’s plenty of work around, don’t jump at the first carrot dangled in front of you. Get a little greedy and you’ll be surprised at what sort of coin you can pull.

[slayer]

So who are the right operators then?

Might consider a change from boring NS to some sun, but it has to be worth it to travel to the other side of the world for work..

[Cabledog]

Fugro Singapore are pretty damn good. New Ops Man now though so will have to give him a fair go at it, He is also a good bloke though and came up from the PM side of the office so knows us all and has worked with most of us already.

Be good
Dog

[Alex Kerr]

rigwash and T’trap,
I refer you to the threads on uni0ns on the site, have a read there and you will see that you can answer all your own questions. 💡

T’trap though, a very wise bear once told me when I bemoaned company heavies hanging around a job rather than being like me and moving on.
"the reason you have to make a stand with a company is because, the job and conditions don’t belong to you, they belong to the guy who comes after you", not fashionable I know but when you look beyond your next trip, thats why conditions don’t improve, cos they know when you leave, another will soon be along.

James,
Think I’ll hold on to that soapbox! 😉 😉

[DJansen]

Trouble is. Even making a stand doesn’t seem to have much effect..

either cos of project managers and Supt’s who don’t want to rock the boat or bring undue scrutiny down on their workload/management skills.. (or lack of)
or.

Further up the chain in the HR dept. they have the Just open up another box of ROV guys attitude..

Recent jobs I have been on there have been countless minuted complaints about conditions, food and general safety.. Any improvement ? Nope.. just vague promises and the such like..

And as for pay 🙄

When did the Xmas bonus last receive a revue at your company ? As far as I’m aware ours has been the same for 5-6 years..

Loyaty bonus .. okay it’s on a sliding scale but once you reach the top that’s it.. that percentage has been the same for 10 years..

Pay rates .. yes they have improved marginally in the last five years but they certainly aren’t keeping track with inflation or the oil companies profits… And nasty areas like W Africa have pathetic hardship allowances

Same with salary packages.. The companies are now very keen to get guys hooked into a salary cos they think that’s a way to guarantee having personnel available when it’s busy.. But I don’t see any real monetary incentive for the guys.. Just a false sense of security for the guys who are worried about their mortgage.. 🙄 As if being on salary guarantees their employment.. 😆 For me I’ve worked long term with four different companies and any time it’s started to go downhill I’ve voted with my feet.. And will continue to do so.. trying to rally guys around and present a united front is just too hard.. everybodies circumstances are different and even guys who’d love to walk often can’t cos of commitments and family.. add into this a lack of self confidence about finding new employment and they daren’t speak up.. Then there are new guys only too keen to fill in and do an extra couple of weeks

Very very hard to drive the message home to the management.. Only time they listen is when all their core guys have left.. The niggardly attitude of the HR Dept. doesn’t look so good then .. does it ? 😆 So what do they do? Put up the day rates to attract guys from other companies.. 🙄 Wouldn’t they be better off just looking after the guys they had ?

[Alex Kerr]

All very true, but if it was easy then things would all be perfect, and we would be living in a floating utopia—then what would we have to shout about?- don’t know if I could cope with it!! 😉 😉

[luckyjim37]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people winge about money on these forums.

If I compare my wages, time off, quality of life and the amount of top sunshine I get a year I would take the pay I am on and the job I do over just about any of my "landlubber" mates any day of the week.

We do not get a bad deal with money and to honest if I go on a job with two trainees that is a challenge not a problem. If they are crap then it is a hard trip if they are good then it is a pleasure to work with them and try and answer the questions.

We can all sit there and complain or we could just get on with the job in hand which we by our own free will choose to do without being put any duress.

We have all either chose to accept a contract or have accepted an agency day rate and neither of these things are totally binding us into a life long commitment.

I personally feel that there are some elements of the uni0n movement which are positive and a lot that are negative.

Do offices care about the teams.. of course not. Do they do there best to ensure the staff offshore are capable of making the company as much money as possible..probably.

The world seems to be on the brink of recession and our industry will probably not even notice it so I think we are all pretty lucky to be where we are doing what we are doing.

That is of course only my opinion.

Oh and whilst I am here the company I do most of my work for I think does care about the standard of teams it sends out and on many occassions I have conversations with the project manager/ops manager about the guys coming out to make sure we could cope with higher levels of trainees on a job.

I cannot agree more with what James said, If we all treat each other as human beings with a little respect then the jobs would be easier.

I am sick and tired of seeing trainees who are struggling being put under more pressure by supervisors who do not have the patience to train them and assist them in getting up to speed.

I have said this before, it is our interests to encourage and work with the trainees to get them up to speed otherwise as a supervisor or even a sub eng you end up running yourself into the ground doing everything.

[Salee]

Niice opinion and good words Jim.
It would be nice if more people in the industry have the same!!!

[rishi27]

Jim,

Well done. I agree with you on the Tainees. It would also be the responsibility of the Company to ensure not too many trainees are on the same project.

Difficult to find guys like you these days. Cheers.

[joeboy]

I don’t think the companies care about their teams at all. They continue to employ long terms idiots who should be jettisoned. They pass up the chance on trainees with excellent potential. They let good personnel slip away in a steady stream with no effort made to retain said peeps. Most times the onshore personnel people crewing the jobs don’t have a clue what they are doing(do you read some of the potential c.v’s sent offshore)?

Personally i focus on looking after the men and women i have in the crew at that point in time and try and keep the crew together for the season so they mesh and perform well while learning off each other. More thatn that i no longer try and do.

Please don’t anyone think the company considers you as ‘special’ or cares about you beyond the most basic application of HSE rule, they don’t. After all my years offshore i am now a bitter and twisted old bas in it only for the money, the runs ashore and the cameraderie of a good crew, other than that the employers can shove themselves up each others a**es at thier quarterly suckfests. I hope i’ve managed to get my thoughts across? 😆

[liddelljohn]

Joeboy is spot on …that all true.

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