Do any ROV companies really care about ‘their’ teams ?

[Andy Shiers]

Yep . spot on……..
Trainees should stay trainees on trainee pay for at least four years.
Apprentiship , it’s called and an incentive bonus to those that actually work.
Too many people thinking it’s just about earning more potential.
Walk before you run !
As you said there is plenty of work and Too many players for the Orifice to be scared of people walking off.

[ROVRatt]

Lostboy wrote:

Trainees should stay trainees on trainee pay for at least four years.
Apprentiship , it’s called and an incentive bonus to those that actually work.

How long did you remain a trainee for lostboy? There are many older guys coming into ROV from the maritime industry, forces etc. that learn quickly and are technically proficient. Not all trainees are ex high school.

Treat these older guys that have a wealth of experience, were probably in supervisory positions and have an excellent work ethic like a schoolkid and they will leave.

Trying to close the shop and denying entry, or rather, purposely and vindictively making life difficult for newcomers when the industry is crying out for people goes against all business sense and good manners.

Remember, the way you learnt to do it may not be the only way. In fact, your way may even be outdated.

[James McLauchlan]

Lets not get off topic please.

If you wish to discuss trainee progression/time served please start another thread called ‘How long should people remain trainees?’ or something.

This one is about: Do any ROV companies really care about ‘their’ teams ?

[Andy Shiers]

I would say about four years give or take ,
Been in the game 24 years. And it does not matter how old you are !
You’re missing the point I’m trying to make.
It’s Becuase there are so many people trying to get into the industry that your word is worth Diddley squat as there will be somebody willing to take your postion at a lower wage just to get in. This makes it harder to turn the screws on the Orifice as they have plenty of wannabes to prove they can do it !
I have no problems having trainees with me and had plenty. Whether the way I explain things one way or another does not matter ! There are good teachers and bad , You learn from everyone………….. Good or bad and when you are PRIVILAGED to be in a position to Supervise , you leave you’re own mark , Good or bad ! You are entitled to you’re opinion.
BUT certain people are rocketed up the ladder quicker than others Not because they are experienced but because the Orifice is A/ Trying to get the job done as quickly as possible B/ Because the Orifice has bad management and managed to piss the Experienced Guys off C/ they have no option as they canna find anyone Cheap to take the job in the first place.
By the way I learn everytime I go offshore and never cease and I don’t always know all the answers nor never claimed to no them so you canna throw the " He’s just one of the old and bolds’ chestnuts ! The Indusrty is growing But IT will BURST 🙁 It always does because it is the OIL Industry !
The Orifice Knows this which is the reason why they treat pilots the way they do !
Crap vessels , Crap food , Bad travelling organisation , Rates that don’t go up with inflation ( The insurance premiums do ! ) And putting Trainees in postions they are not experienced enough to be in with the promise of a payrise if everything goes smoothly . I take my hat off to you if your first jobs go well , I hope it continues BUT 🙂 Learning by your mistakes in this Industry can be costly 😕 For yourself , Reputation and a headache to the experienced guy who has to pick up the pieces !
Because of this massive expansion and the new people willing to bend over just to get the job and make a mark makes it harder to pressurise the Orifice to give us a payrise and improve conditions………………….. where ever you work 😯 except the Northsea 😀
So , getting back to the Topic in hand

Just wondering where you have to go nowadays to work with experienced guys on a decent vessel? for a decent company that looks after its’ guys.. ?

That……………………………….. is a very good question 😕
Can ya walk the walk as well as Talk the Talk 8)

[Andy Shiers]

Oh , My last post is Very relevant to this thread James because it’s one of the reasons why ……………………..

Just wondering where you have to go nowadays to work with experienced guys on a decent vessel? for a decent company that looks after its’ guys.. ?

Unless people grasp this , We will NEVER be in a position to demand anything !
The only time we did have a say and the rates went up and the conditions got better and you were not treated as ‘ A Diver ‘ 😕 Back in the early eighties ! " If you don’t like it , Move aside as there are plenty of others to fill your place " ! Ring a bell anyone ?

[TEAMJBR]

Too true Lost 1

James too quick to jump in with your stick me thinks very relevant!!!

😡

[James McLauchlan]

Lets not get off topic please.

A little sensitive maybe?

There was no stick or threat of one… there was also a ‘please’ in there.
No jumping in either as it was approximately 14 posts since my last missive in this thread.

[James McLauchlan]

Picking up on the original post….

Not tsaying there isn’t any work around.. there is heaps.. but why are rates stagnant and HR staff indifferent ?

Because as long as the HR staff can get away with it they will.

As mentioned earlier, people wandering around as a bunch of individuals will get nowhere as is very apparent at the moment. A free T shirt is not the answer though.

[Andy Shiers]

Does that mean I ain’t getting one then James 🙁

[James McLauchlan]

The ‘T’ shirt bit was in response to the something the OP wrote at the start of this thread.

……….. Shouldn’t the companies be vying for attention with better pay,rewards and bonuses etc.. or at least hand out the odd T-shirt.

[Alex Kerr]

guys,
my god is this thread stirring up debate or what?, "an element of conflict in any conversation is a good thing, it shows everyone is taking part".
I haven’t left anything on this for a while now, but reading through the recent posts absolutely nothing has changed about this in all my time offshore, I don’t understand why guys still need convincing that standing together is the only answer under the current (and eternally consistant) system, through long long long experience I refer you to my last post on this topic.
You! are the future of your industry but it is up to you how it improves, change nothing and nothing will change!.

O, lost one!,
Agree with the concept, but 4 years?!, having served a 4 yr apprenticeship(cos thats who we are talking about), to serve another 4 is a bit over the top, doctors only do 7!!, but your hearts in the right place.

cheers, and remember!, you cant do enough for a good company, – or you can’t do a good company for enough, -I always forget which way round that goes!! 😉 😉

[luckyjim37]

I think sparks is basically suggesting what has been suggested here and on other threads that as an industry we must unite and realistically the proven model for this is via a union.

Reading through the last few comments it occurs to me how many supervisors and superintendants there are kicking around with twenty odd years offshore experience.

The simple solution is if some of these guys who are now working toward the end of there careers took office jobs and changed things for the better that way.

The flip side to this argument is I now wonder if they did that how long it would take before they started to do what the office staff already do and have to compromise on teams due to lack of experience available within the company and the agencies.

We all agree as an industry we are understaffed and we all agree that as an industry there are to many trainees at the moment.

It is about time we also therefore accepted that as an industry there has been a lack of personnel development for years and everytime a school starts up most advice given to new starts is not to waste there money on the courses.

There does need to be a shake up in the industry but it would be easier if the personnel who have made it to the top of the offshore tree finished off in the offices to guide the inexperienced office staff and secretaries who realistically know nothing about what actually happens offshore and the stresses and strains of life on a ship/rig.

Maybe that way real change would come about without the need for strike threats and ballots and agm’s.

💡

[James McLauchlan]

Having guys with many years offshore experience migrate to the office appears to be a good idea, but not many of those people are willing to spend days on end working 9-5 after having spent many years at sea in a lifestyle that is totally alien to that. Running a company myself enables me to see both sides of the coin.

I’m sure those that do end up in the office start with the right approach but, for those that have in the past, I have seen a strange metamorphosis take place whereby after a while they end up projecting the same slippery couldn’t care less about the offshore crew type attitude that typically appears to prevail in office management today.

I feel that you will not change management from within because further up the chain there is upper management putting pressure on lower management to produce the goods come what may. As office staff (in general) are employed locally on salary, having to rely on work in their local area, they do what they are told to do or end up having to leave. On the other hand offshore people have a much wider range of employment venues and therefore can afford to be a little more transient as their work location is often not connected to the are they live in.

An operations mangers first priority is to get/keep the current project staffed and give some small thought to ongoing crew for the next job.

In the short term they will put pressure on the good crew and use them over and over until they either burn out or lose the plot. Of late this has changed a little as it seems these days just about anyone that can spell ROV will get a look in.

As I wrote earlier a company’s only drive is to complete a project for the shareholders at the least possible expense with the maximum possible return. An added benefit for company staff is the annual bonus. The lump sum bonus scheme is industry wide, but all offshore crews receiving it isn’t. This varies from company to company so there is not fixed agreement in place for this. This is another shortfall of the system, if you wish to view it as that.

I have always been of the opinion that the solution to these many shortfalls is Uni0n involvement, but I’m not going to go into that in depth here as it will hijack the original question. So I will start a new thread in the Uni0n section though as, after 23 years in this game, I’m getting pretty fed up with seeing so many fence sitters around here prepared to talk a lot (like in this thread) but not actually prepared to do anything about it.

In summary.

No! Companies do not ‘care’ about their teams, but they do care about having enough people around [at the cheapest possible rate] to enable completion of the job to client satisfaction.

There is no more to it than that.

[3_Of_Diamonds]

I dinna know why you all greet so much.. The more experienced guys all think they should be paid extra just because they have been in the industry a few years and then just sit around surfing the internet all day..
meanwhile we have lots of new trainees willing to work very hard. They are happy to do extra weeks and don’t complain about the food, cabins or going to dangerous worksites.. really starting to think that we’d be better getting rid of all the ‘experienced’ crew and replacing them with younger, keener recruits.. maybe they’d be satisfied with a wage well beyond what the average man gets…

[Alex Kerr]

3 0f "d’s"
I can only hope that you are using irony as a tool to generate debate (but I’m not sure, 😕 ).

[Author]

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