H M Revenue & Customs TAX Ruling

[kangaroo]

Perhaps it is time to ask the Divers to come in and help us – lol!

[mind-when-this-was-fields]

See how greed is good Gordy likes it when all the boats are tied up again:-)))
He’s made a pigs ear of everything else!!

[pipetracker]

I don’t think the signing of the petition is a total waste of time as it’s a good indicator and I’m in no doubt that when the petition relevant to our situation is started that we’ll get a strong response as well.

[zincanode]

If we’re going to petition then the most important thing is to get the "Retrospective taxation" removed.

This doesn’t just effect us, it can (and probably will) be applied to almost anyone, we just seem to be the first guinea-pigs. Get the Merchant Bankers (pardon the pun) interested with the fear that their Golden Parachutes could be further at risk and it’ll soon hit the financial pages.

You can imagine headlines like "Gordon’s Final Tax Demand" just before he’s unceremoniously booted through the cat-flap of No 10. Ah well, he’ll be OK…no doubt lining up a Euro-commissioner position as we speak on £450k/year tax free (just like Phoney Tony and the Kinnock’s) – Bit rich knockin’ our tax status when the Euro-mumpties get free travel, free accommodation and not tax on their salaries eh 🙄

[digitellus]

Guys ..oops and girls,
dont under estimate Salmond, this is perfect scenario and the only one that we all know who will actually stick his head on the block for you. Love or hate him regardless of nationality or politics he is the one who can put some real weight behind this.

[Buffel]

Guys I have had a brief response from Peter Bottomley this morning,perhaps we can heed the mans request and not inundate him now.He is in definitely aware of the issue now!! 😯 ,so lets leave hime to see what he can do! so drown Brown in emails ,mind you the man is drowning as it is…

here is the reply

Thanks.I needed just one message and yours is not the first.Can I ask gently who initiated the prompt to uou so I can engage with them before the stream of messages becomes counter productive!

[westy]

Guys I have had a brief response from Peter Bottomley this morning,perhaps we can heed the mans request and not inundate him now.He is in definitely aware of the issue now!! 😯 ,so lets leave hime to see what he can do! so drown Brown in emails ,mind you the man is drowning as it is…

here is the reply

Thanks.I needed just one message and yours is not the first.Can I ask gently who initiated the prompt to uou so I can engage with them before the stream of messages becomes counter productive!

then maybe he will get the point ! There is no point in him getting upset with getting emails if his email address is easily accesible. If you want a job in the goverment then accept the responsibilty that goes with it, ie answerable to voters.

Westy

[zincanode]

Absolutely Westy!

We said

[Savante]

signed the petition ! It’s a good start.

Has anyone got a copy of an appropriately drafted letter to send their local MP?

[teamilknone]

Perhaps it is time to ask the Divers to come in and help us – lol!

They’re in talk to go paye, so they’ll deffo be interested in this. They did it last year so aren’t affraid to go on strike again.

The only thing on their side is that they stick together, unfortunately it’s not something we’re known for 🙁

[piedpiper]

Perhaps it is time to ask the Divers to come in and help us – lol!

They’re in talk to go paye, so they’ll deffo be interested in this. They did it last year so aren’t affraid to go on strike again.

The only thing on their side is that they stick together, unfortunately it’s not something we’re known for 🙁

The divers strike was 2 years ago and it was the first time they have ever stuck together, but look at what they acheived ! We need to join with them and get organised over this tax issue, only then will we have the numbers and the clout to do something about it. And no matter what some people on this forum think, the only viable way forward at the moment is with RMT/OILC. There is a thread on here about ‘joining RMT’ in the uni0n section, have a read at some of the things the divers are claiming for in their next pay talks. If they get what they want they will be light years ahead of us in pay and conditions. And what will we be doing if they get it, and we don’t ? Still pissing and moaning on here every week!

[Bristar]

Just wrote to my MP using this website:

http://www.writetothem.com

It makes it very easy to find them and your letter is digitally signed.

B

[Buffel]

Guys, following on from yesterday’s mail from Peter Bottomley. I was today asked to call his office. I have done so this morning and he has taken up this issue and written to the Treasury and HMRC in his capacity as Chair of the Maritime Committee, requesting that this issue be looked at and the manner in which a group are being steamrollered by Government and Revenue reviewed. That is all that he can do from his end until a response is forthcoming.
He has sterssed that he is aware and has done what he can,but that could we please stop emailing him,he has responded as best he can but feels that due to the nature of Parliamentary rules he cannot intervene on the part of another MP’s constituent further than he has.But Also the impact of a dozen Labour MP’s turning up on the Chancellors doorstep is more significant than a single Letter from a Committee Chairman.

[teamilknone]

I’ve had a reply from Anne Begg (chair of the oil & gas commitee) saying the her & Mike Weir (my MP) are going to a meeting about this, she didn’t say who with but i’d presume it’s somebody from Exchequer (sp 😳 )

[OILC_neil]

Guys,
I’m not trying to turn this board into a uni0n board and I apologise for the sheer size of this posting. Below is correspondence between myself and one of a group of ROV RMT members I contacted. It’s worth noticing that because of illness I haven’t been able to meet up with Jake yet, so there are issues I’m not up to date with

“Tomorrow (29th Sept) I’m off down to Doncaster to be "trained" in RMT branch procedures etc. They know not what they do! But there I’ll get the chance to have an in depth chat with Jake Molloy, and get some details straight about this tax debacle, and his opinion on what can be done now. I passed on a letter that I received about this issue from an RMT member in ROV, to Jake and our local in house solicitor. But she says she doesn’t have the specialised knowledge to deal with an issue like this. Presumably we can hire someone who does if it seems that there is some point, or some opportunity to pursue a legal challenge. I just don’t know. But I will find out and keep you informed.
What I do know is,that if there is any "solution", it lies with you yourselves. There’s been a steady flow, if not exactly a deluge, of guys transferring into the OILC branch. This mail is going to 26 of you. I guess you’re transferring because you feel the OILC branch is better placed to support you. But it is you guys (not your new branch) who are the experts. You have the motivation to research and understand this issue. You have the opportunity to discuss this issue and form some sort of consensus. You can work out what you need to do. In short, you can "organise" and insist that your uni0n takes this issue on board and confront the problem.
These are all things, it is true, that could have been done when you were in other RMT branches. What has changed is that you are now in a branch that will actively encourage you to organise yourselves. What I can do is get you the advice that our uni0n can give. I can co-ordinate any activity that you guys feel you need to carry out. I can encourage you to intervene in your own future. I can encourage you to form yourselves into an ROV committee in the branch that will express the opinion and requirements of ROV uni0n members. I can also submit a resolution to the next branch meeting of OILC, that is if none of you guys can make it along to the meeting yourselves. Our representative on RMT’s Council of Executives will be there and will be able to raise the branch’s concerns on the highest body of the uni0n. We’re meeting in Cafe Dag’, Crown Street on Thursday 9th October at 13:30. Any RMT member, whatever branch they are in, can attend.
Am I wrong to assume that this issue affects a good deal more than you guys. I know some of you might not be too keen to hear the "D" word but are the divers not affected by this ruling? I know they’re in the process of lodging this year’s wage claim with the employers. Their two reps had Jake up at a meeting with the employers (the same employers that hire you guys?) at, the Treetops a couple of days ago. But we need to find out what, if anything, they are planning to do about this situation. And we can co-ordinate any response. I also know that it was Nautilus members who were in the original case, but as far as I know their uni0n declined to appeal the decision. I’ll try and find out why. But not withstanding this, their members, (ships officers I presume), will also be affected.
I realise that I’m repeating, pretty much, the words that seemed to kill the debate on the "uni0n" bulletin board stone dead. But there isn’t a shortcut that avoids "self organisation".
What do you guys think can be done? What would you like to see the OILC Branch doing?
This is just a thought from a non ROVer, not branch policy, but surely one of the things that an organised workforce would be doing at this point is arranging to meet the employers and tell them that if the Government are going to go ahead with this raid on your sector of the industry, then they should be warned that the workforce have no intention of taking the hit. If the government persists, then it is they, the employers, who are going to have to pick up the tab.
And you might as well throw in the suggestion that they begin to think about how they’re going to compensate you for inflation – and for that matter, what are they going to do about sharing out the increased profits that have accrued from the high oil prices? But of course here I’m talking about an organised workforce. We are far away from there yet though. Do you guys think you need to get there?
For my part I’ll try and get my head round this issue. I’ll do what I can to make sure Jake and your other uni0n officers know what you think about this situation and what should be done about it.
Would you guys be prepared to write down the issues that you see as relevant here? This could form the basis for a resolution from the branch that could go to the RMT leadership and also provide the basis for a letter that could be sent to Government and local MPs and the SNP and anyone else who might listen?
I see one man’s take on the issue on this bulletin board.
1. Retrospective taxation sets a dangerous precedent for other UK taxes, with HMRC set to demand repayment of five figure sums, from individual seafarers.
2. The re-definition of a "ship" for purposes of personal taxation has been made without appropriate maritime experts being called to debate this.
3. This affects UK tax payers employed as mariners anywhere in the world
4. As HMRC will in future judge certain types of vessel on a case by case basis, it is impossible for a mariner to establish potential tax liability before starting work – There are no other group of workers in UK who would be required to start work without this information.
5. It will decimate the UK offshore industry, with many workers taking early retirement, or moving out of UK altogether.
6. The few remaining UK flagged vessels will have difficulty finding British crewmen – foreign competitors are being given financial assistance and tax incentives to use their national crews.
I’ll say it again. I’m no expert! So are these the main points that you guys think need to be addressed? What are the other issues?
Fraternally
Neil”

And the reply to me from one of my ROV correspondents

Neil,
We note with interest comments on the latest meeting between employers and the RMT on the 25th of September.
There was a mention of Inspection Engineers joining the ODIA agreement but nothing regarding ROV personnel?
We would be grateful if you could tell us why we were not included in the agreement from the start and any reasons why it would not be prudent to do so?
I attach something of interest regarding the recent tax fiasco. I think it speaks for itself.
It’s nice to know that our marine crew brethren stand shoulder to shoulder to us in times of crisis!!

And my reply to this correspondent

Thanks Colleague,
I’m sorry but I don’t know anything about Inspection Engineers joining the ODIA agreement or indeed about ROV joining it. I’ll pass on your mail to Jake and try and get some information.
The divers are not in the OILC Branch and I haven’t been speaking to them. However it would be my opinion, and I will get a chance to air it, that there be maximum co-operation between the divers and ROVers.
And I guess that they will mobilize on the SED issue. It surely applies to them too?
I can’t double guess what they will do. They have their own reps and devise their own strategy and they discuss with Jake. But again I’d be surprised if they’re not thinking about letting their employers know that, if there is going to be a tax raid on their sector, then they, the divers, have no intention of taking it, and the employers better have a word with Alistair Darling or begin to think where they are going to find the cash to deal with this problem.
You realise of course that this is not RMT or the divers’ policy but my thoughts on the matter.
This whole debacle must be concentrating the mind of the ROVers. It’s great that there’s a discussion going on this bulletin board. It’s also great that there’s an increasing flow wanting to join the OILC Branch. But it seems to me that the next step for you guys has got to be to get yourselves organised. From my perspective it’s obvious some of you need to step forward and take up reps positions and get a ctte together to co-ordinate all this. What do you want? What do you think you need to do to achieve it?
The OILC Branch of RMT will enter into any discussions you want and give you the fullest co-operation if you want to fight this. The only thing we can’t do is fight it for you. If you guys get together and want to open discussions with the divers about a joint response then I will do my damndest to facilitate this.
The letter you attached from the Nautilis members on DSV PMS MAYO is indicative of the dangers of a fragmented workforce. Their frustration about being, as they perceive it, second class citizens is palpable. Their attitude towards their colleagues is however not defensible as far as I can see. But you guys have plenty of opportunity to work for solidarity with your fellow trade unionists in RMT – namely the divers. No doubt there will be mariners who also see the benefit of a united approach to this issue.
Fraternally
neil

And my correspondent again

Neil
With regard to diver/rov relations we’ve been speaking with the divers who we know and work with and their response has always been "the more the merrier" so to speak!
I’m sure that the involvement of ROV during any "bargaining process" with the employers would assist any members associated with diving operations.
If we were to move forward with our involvement my only suggestion would be some sort of ballot? of ROV members?
From some of the comments that I have been reading recently I’m sure that the overwhelming majority of ROV members would be keen to go down this route.
I/we look forward to hearing any comments Jake or yourself may have on the subject.
In the meantime we will continue to put together some requests for our Xmas wish list and will forward you our favourites asap.( we note with interest that a similar list to our own was discussed at the meeting of September 25th).
Kind regards,
(name supplied )

[Author]

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