Sub Net Service’s (philippines training for ROV pilots)

[deepbluespark]

yes, nicely done…

[turtle]

There are a great many successful ROV folks who entered the field with minimal technical experience on the cv. Of course a tech background is desirable but given the choice between:

(a) degreed Electronics Engineer, never been offshore, can’t use a wrench, won’t put hands on the oily parts because he’s ET, can’t troubleshoot but "knows it all"
(b) gung ho, will tackle anything and ask questions/help as necessary, doesn’t whinge, willing and enthusiastic to learn, arrives early and leaves last — but most recent job was lorry driver/delivery man

Guess who gets the shot at stick time on my crew? My truck driver can pick up a text book, take a home study correspondence course, get his nose in manuals whenever he has the chance and after a reasonable apprenticeship period becomes the dependable guy I can eventually expect to leave in charge when I’m off for my meal. Mr EE is my candidate for Permanent Winch Guy. The new trainee, after the first job, is judged far more on what he has done and is perceived capable of doing than on the cv line items.

ROV courses do NOT train applicants to become ROV Pilot/Technicians. The goal of training applicants for entry level is just that — preparation for an entry level position. I want my trainee to know all the parts of an ROV, how to use basic test equipment, fundamentals of mechanics/hydraulics/electrics, how to use duct tape and zip ties and solder, how to keep a log and operate a recording device — enough to make himself useful on the jobsite from Day 1, willing to learn and take instruction to increase his value to the team effort as the job requirements and his ability to learn allow.

From the newbie’s point of view the definition of The Great Training Course is the one that gets him/her the job.

I applaud the management of those courses which screen applicants for their technical abilities and experience. This tends, at times, to act contrarily to the purpose for which a commercial training course exists — to make a profit. The profit is increased by increasing the number of enrollees. The finished product is an ROV training course grad which has passed the criteria of ability to pay course fees but may have demonstrated little in core industry skills.

Yes in a perfect world all ROV newbies will have lots of technical training and experience. But let’s leave a crack in the doorway for those who
approach from divergent backgrounds and are willing to pay for their own training and will demonstrate the drive and adaptability to succeed. If it all goes south for the failed trainee, a career in Project Management beckons–a plethora of "he’s useless here, let’s promote him" PM’s exist as shining examples….hmm….Training Course for OPS/Project Management–no experience necessary. Now there’s an entrepreneurial opportunity.

[bt]

Well said Turtle

I believe Your view and Ozsub reflect more of the rov industry.
Well where i work anyway.

[Crome]

Hi everyone:

Very nice topic, better forum.

Never thought to find something like this, on a very closed industry.

Although I have always searched for a job the electro/mechanical mainetenance offshore, I have always disbelieved these expensive courses.

Why? Because the risk/reward ratio is too high.

I’m an Automation and Robotics Technician with 6 years experience on maintenance and fault find/repair on turnable Magirus ladders (fire-fighting) and I’m personnaly incharged of the maintenance programs and contracts whith clients.

64 machines on my own, all working fine with times to times hard problems, as any complex machine.

I have made interviews and tests whith a major contractor on the oil field, shure to have past all tests and I was never called to work offshore.

No one was called, I guess the guy just wanted a week time in the sunny coast of Portugal with is family… 😕

No one comes from Aberdeen to Portugal make interviews and tests and not one single call for no one…

The question is: If I have experience in hydraulics/electronics/plc how come this world is just so closed and difficult to get in?

I have a close friend that is in the offshore doing Chief Electrician and I guess he was lucky to get in this world (he says so also) and he just can’t find me a way in.

Sorry, I just had to share this…

And thanks for any enlightenment.

[ROVRatt]

I had no previous contacts in the ROV industry.

I sent in my CV for the advert in a newspaper for ROV Pilot /Techs.

I did have the following marine quals/experience though:

Head of Department for electrical plant generating 2.2 MegaWatt 3 phase 440V 60 Hz. Same plant controlled by Siemens S7 ethernet PLC’s monitoring and or controlling 6000 points. Generating plant utilising fibre optics for control.

Experience with large batteries of over 10 000 Ampere Hours Capacity.

Supervisory position.

Trade tested as a Marine Electrical Fitter, meaning a mechanical/electrical grounding including fitting and turning.

Working offshore is far more rewarding for me due to the enjoyment I get out of the job and the generous time off.

[Crome]

ROVRatt,

Nice CV you had, no doubts why you were called.

S7 with 6000 points? Cool… 8) Siemens rulez…

Before doing Magirus ladders, I worked in a company that developed TetraPak machines and quality contol for auto industry.

Programmed the old S5, S7 and machine vision also… great times.

I was in Aberdeen 2 years ago with my CV and went searching for a job on the Oil&Gas maintenance.

Never passed the lobby and delivered my CV at the entrance.

Someone told me a story that a guy camped in the entrance garden of one of the companies that I visited and stayed there until the got him a job. 😮 🙂

Great technique, but not for me LOL.

Was in a job agency, presented my CV, had a talk with the guy, but he said it was a long shot…

Finally got an OK in a company of cranes and hoists that needed a field technician but I refused since it was not offshore, had to buy tools and could not pay the rental of a house in Aberdeen and the loan of my house back in Portugal.

Although they gave me a car and extra hours it was so risky that if pound went down it would be impossible to pay my expenses.

Learning a lot in this forum, and I see there are lots of guys who think they can just drop in this industry without knowledge in electronics/hydraulics or fault finding experience… 🙄

It is not easy even if you got it all…

A course is OK but after you entered the industry.

If I take a good course (like in Cynergetix) are my chances getting better?

I know cases were they enter the position with NO EXPERIENCE at all, just on the right place at the right time…

Thanks for the reply

[flyboy]

I agree 100% with your veiws, eight of us did the ROV training course at IDESS in FEB/MARCH 09 and i feel like i have been RIPPED OFF. This course cost me $15000.00 N.Z dollars.They only gave us 28 flying hours and when i questioned them at IDESS the instructors played dumb. I have all the documents to prove they lied to me and also Gordon who runs these courses has not even had the balls to return my emails.
More people need to complaine or shut this outfit down.My main complaint is if the standard requirement for flying hours to get employment is 100 hours then thats what the training facilities should be giving their students. I intend to seek further action against SUBNET SERVICES.
Thanks.

[James McLauchlan]

Note from James Mc.
I have moved this from another thread started by levon on the very same subject.
The other thread has now been deleted to prevent two discussion s on the same subject being debated at once.

I recently done a ROV course with SUBNET services in subic bay at idess,
We were told we would get up to 50 hrs flying time Prior to paying.
THIS IS UTTER BULLS__T, the left hand does not even know what the right hand is doing, they change the ground rules at a moments notice.
I was told there was three ROVs, but there was only one when I arrived.
We only got around 28 hrs, we asked the lecturers, they knew nothing, I have been emailing most days, now they wont even return emails.
Please do not go there for your training unless you just want to make a donation to there leader Gordon, Whom also does not email back when you have a problems.
I have given them every opportunity to reply, the first response I got was all lies.

Was it their so called ‘3 in 1 course’ you attended?

Can you elaborate a little more on what you expected from the course, based on information supplied on their website, and then explain how it fell short?

How did you perceive the experience level of instructors
Level of training you received?
Locations and types of dives carried out?
Did you actually get to build a small ROV and keep it (as advertised on their website)?

Now EVERY delegate will build/test underwater and KEEP his own small ROV as part of the 3 in 1 course.

It’s not the ‘take an ROV home‘ aspect I’m really interested in. My real point being, do you feel that you were taught the technical aspects of the course to a level that you expected?

Constructive feedback is the only way the field can be levelled in the market place. Best that you do not mention personal names, as that can create libel issues, but debating the performance of the company as an entity is fine.

best regards
James Mc

[Des_b]

Hey all,
Firstly, I have to say I really feel for all you guys who think that they have been ripped off by doing whatever rov courses. It looks like some off you actually have….HOWEVER, it can’t all be blamed on the companies. Any sort of business man with half a brain and eyes can see there is a potential niche to make money in an area such as this.
Id like to know what sort of research you guys did before you gave away your hard earned cash for these courses? Did you wake up one day and say "hey I want to work rov, lets go do a course?" If so, then you have no right to feel ripped off and deserve what you get for not doing your research into the industry and the current work climate. It doesn’t matter who you are, what background you have, or what nationality you are – you should always, always do your homework. This may seem a tad harsh but then life is harsh -why make it any harder for yourself by not fully preparing yourself?

From a personal perspective, I did the fort Bill course all 7 weeks (Partially funded by resettlement from the military but mostly by myself), in Nov 06. There were 8-12 of us on the course and I was one of 3 who got a job straight away. I only know of one other who is now working and lost touch with the others. I researched the job and possibilities for about 6 or 7 months before deciding to go ahead….

So, if the time is right and jobs are available you will get a job…..
BUT THIS IS FOR ALL WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT IT!!!!!!

Call up and ask as many companies as you can and see if they are taking trainees…If the collective answer is no or the majority is no….well, do I really need to spell it out? Save your money for another time. I’m not saying don’t do a course but if you want to,at least do it when it will benefit you. Oh, and the cheapest isn’t always the better option….

Looking at the other courses available and their so called promises…all I can say is the UWC did exactly what it said, no more no less and for me was worth the money. If you really must do a course do that one….

Sorry its a bit long but the night shift is a dreary place when in Saudi…

😳 😳 😳

[Wade Berglund]

For Des B

Just for the forum and the topic….you said that the FWUC was a worthwhile course, and that you did the full package deal of 7 weeks. I was just wondering what is your background? What was your previous work experience?

You stated that only a few of you actually found work, how big was your course? You said that there was 8-12…does that mean that 4 failed to complete it? Were there any other courses being run at the same time and do you have any idea what their percentage of success was?

Again if you know what the other background of the others from your course that successfully got jobs, I think that would help the forum, and provide some insight.

Good post and good luck

Cheers

Trimtank

[Des_b]

Hey Trimtank,

I was a comms tech in the Marines (not the yank wannabes – royal marines 8) ). For me the course was worthwhile because the electronics side of the course at FW gave me the equivalent of a NVQ3 in electronic eng, which without I wouldn’t have been able to do my HNC and am now on a HND. So although some people slate the place it gave me a recognised educational qualification which I could use in any job. The other option for me was to do a NVQ3/HNC elec eng while in the marines but would have been nigh on impossible in my timeframe. I mean, its a bit difficult to do these courses while on a 6 mth deployment to Afghanistan and Iraq as I found out while doing a computer degree – which I couldnt finish because of the work commitments)

8-12 on the course, we all finished but as I wrote only the four of us that I know of got jobs – only because I lost touch with the others. Skills wise, the other guys who got jobs were: degree student in enviro studies and geography (If he’s reading this, sorry TJB if I got it wrong :lol:) , ex merchant seamen mechie and the other guy was (i think) a gym instructor in his last job, but I cant be sure of that. Again if he reads this sorry M if I got it wrong!!!!
The other guys – 2 french guys one was a ex navy sparky, a ex fishing boat captain and a WO2 from the guards who was leaving the army in a years time. I dont know what happened with them……

There was another course being run staggered to ours but I have no idea on the skill base or success rate. I imagine the pass rate was almost 100%, Paul Bury will be able to clarify that, as he is the chief instructor there.

As Turtles previous post said, He would rather take someone who was willing to work and learn quick than the t0sser who thought he knew it all and actually didn’t….BTW turtle, good post!!!

And to Levon who wrote:

My main complaint is if the standard requirement for flying hours to get employment is 100 hours then thats what the training facilities should be giving their students.

As I don’t know your exact situation I can only go off what you have written….Unfortunately mate, no, the only thing you need to get a "start" in this industry is a relevant, well written (no fibs) cv, a good covering letter relevant to the company you are applying to, and good timing. Knowing someone will always help as well :D. Then makes sure you prove yourself on the first job by working your bollocks off….

Cheers

😛

[flyboy]

Before choosing SUBNET SERVICES for my training facility i researched most ROV training facilities including Scotland and others.I chose SUBNET SERVICES because i had numerous telephone conversations with the staff and emails assuring me that there training course had a minimum of 50 hours flying time, and that there would be two rovs available for training with and a third coming back from maintenance work. So thats why i am p-off.I certainly believe that i did my homework and chose SUBNET SERVICES ON what THEY fed me.I have done training in heaps of other areas and i think SUBNET are sadly lacking in professionalism and if i can make other people aware of what is happening at SUBNET SERVICES then maybe others wont feel RIPPED OFF! When you go off shore for training please be very CAREFULL and DONT PAY ALL THE MONEY AT ONCE.
cheers.

[Des_b]

Fair enough dude,

Sorry to hear you got goosed…….. 😳 😳

[James McLauchlan]

Note from Forum admin: The last reply was split away to create another topic for The Underwater Centre (Fort William) – Course Feedback. This action was taken to prevent this thread on Subnet Services going off topic.

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