H M Revenue & Customs TAX Ruling

[Pugwash]

When I contacted Cardiff Marine on the phone a few weeks ago to find out what the hell was going on, I ended up speaking to a guy that had been part of the original meeting that resulted in this whole mess. His angle was that we really should be paying tax like everyone else. Everyone else where? I thought… On ships? Well if this were the case, all the eastern Europeans, Indians and Filipinos that make up a large proportion of the Merchant Navy these days don’t pay much tax. So when he eventually gets his way and the last of the British Merchant seafarers are taxed out of their jobs, deep sea as well as in the Offshore sector, where will they get their tax money from then?
The people that work in HMRC have no idea what seafaring is all about and that is why they have made such a stupid mess of all this. The directives that they work to are written so that they can manipulate them to suit themselves, but the way that they’ve done it this time has made it clear that they are hovering over us to get their pound of flesh. Whilst I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of this, I am not prepared to drop our guard. Be assured that the HMRC will be smarting over this and will soon come out with another ruse to get their way over us 👿

[Andy Shiers]

It’s a real pity you cannot remember this blokes name so that we can name and shame him or. atleast keep his name in the spotlight so that the MP’s can take notice 😉
Go on give us the name of this chap who is trying to give the Industry a kick in the teeth 8)

[Moray]

Mechtech, do you find your inferiority complex affects other aspects of your life or only your dealings with those you perceive to be in authority ?

Thankfully we live in a democracy where OUR public servants/employees are nominally answerable to OUR elected representatives.

[James McLauchlan]

What has been proven beyond doubt is that if people actually take action, about something they are not keen on, a result can be achieved. Too often do we see individuals moan, roll over, and comply. This approach seems to be endemic in British society/culture.

For once even the most compliant and running scared types should be able to see that collective action can make a difference.

[Bacaruda]

The UK is nearly bankrupt Mr Broon needs the money, i don’t think we can win this. We didn’t get it overturned in 1997 with the semi’s and drillships and I don’t think we can do it in 2008.

I hope i’m wrong !!

[James McLauchlan]

I was over in Asia at the time and it slipped by my sonar. Did the 1997 event cause as much as a stir as this one?

[Moray]

Copied from Seatax (seatax.co.uk) website,

We have now had confirmation from HMRC what their stance is with regard to classifying certain vessels as installations following the decision by the Commissioners with regard to Pride South America. This is that a structure that undertakes duties which are part of the process of exploitation of mineral resources whilst standing or stationed will be treated as an offshore installation but a similar vessel which carries out its duties in a mobile or transient fashion will continue to be regarded as a ship. Therefore, it seems that vessels that are ships by design should still qualify for the seafarers earnings deduction. The Revenue inform us that they will send out a further letter next week to clarify the situation.

[James McLauchlan]

It’s a sad day when I have to consider not writing something here because someone from HMRC may well be following this thread to keep track on what comments are being made. I’m not saying this site is anything special and that they drop in all the time, but they do get information from the net I am sure so this could be one small source out of many that they glean ideas from.

Thanks for the post Moray….
I could pick the above (seatax.co.uk) letter apart with grey area type questions but as that might only highlight loopholes I will keep quiet for now …..yeah, yeah, hard I know, I hear some of you say! 😉

It may be prudent not to debate this in to much detail until next week when HMRC have issued new ‘clearer’ guidelines on the matter and then discuss them after the event.

I for one would not want to be the one raising a point that they may have missed, prior to them issuing the letter, only to find that they slipped it in at the last moment.

[Anonymous]

Yes james you are probably right BIG BROTHER probably is snooping.This useless Labour government seem to be very good at that.
I would put it to them how it really is.That they are a useless buch of robbing scroungers…

[Pugwash]

Well I’ve just been up to the Seatax site and read the report about the change of stance by HMRC. Thing is, as Seatax describe things I can’t see much change at all. We will of course have to wait and see what "new" guidelines HMRC publish, but I fear that it may simply be another load of gobbledegook written purposesly to confuse and allow interpretation in any way that they want. If this is what happens then we must raise our game to lobby our MPs, Unions and Marine Societies more vigorously to 1) Restore the SED for the purposes that it was first intended and 2) Proper logically and clearly written guidelines that leave no doubt as to who qualifies for the concession.

[James McLauchlan]

……………..If this is what happens then we must raise our game to lobby our MPs, Unions and Marine Societies more vigorously to 1) Restore the SED for the purposes that it was first intended and 2) Proper logically and clearly written guidelines that leave no doubt as to who qualifies for the concession.

The ideas are sound. Historically Brits are not too good at complaining or writing to MP’s, Unions or whomever. I feel that gradually things are changing in that respect, especially as a result of the pressure this government has put over the years on the average household by way of taxes & fines etc. The government must go, as must their overpowering ideas.
In the meantime there is no harm in continuing to lobby politicians and unions on the subject. If enough people do it even a so called ‘labour’ government has to sit up and listen eventually.

[zincanode]

I don’t think we’re being paranoid about our discussions being monitored by Big Brother. And I think we have to be very careful about certain accountancy companies. One which has been mentioned on this site is partially staffed by ex-HMRC personnel – poachers turned gamekeepers (…or is it the other way round). However, given that HMRC personnel are now being given large bonuses based on how much extra cash they claw back into the system, we should look carefully to see if were being sucked by some of their ex-colleagues.

Something like "I’ll tell you just how to grab the money from these offshore workers if you share your bonus with me. And even if that doesn’t work my accountancy company will make money hand over foot when we fight the case on their behalf" Take a look at who seems to herald these changes and it always points back to the same accountancy companies.

No doubt about it, the gloves are off and we all need to be on our guard.

[Ray Shields]

I don’t think we’re being paranoid about our discussions being monitored by Big Brother.

Its not as if they need GCHQ to read this you know – this is a public site for anyone to read, sometime some people forget that (especially when they’re slagging someone off :D)

If you want to say something private, use a PM – otherwise assume what you say is put on a huge billboard for the whole world to read :L

How many people have lost their jobs from writing stuff on blogs 🙂

[Buffel]

Ray, thanks for that observation good to have you back and stating the glaringly obvious!

[Ray Shields]

Ray, thanks for that observation good to have you back and stating the glaringly obvious!

You’d be amazed at the amount of people who cannot see the glaringly obvious 😀

And I aint been anywhere.

[Author]

Posts