H M Revenue & Customs TAX Ruling

[OILC_neil]

Congratulations! Things are looking a bit better on the SED front for the moment!

But might it not be best for ROVers to get organised sooner rather than later? As guys on here have pointed out, this is not likely to be the end of the attacks on you.

I was most impressed by the activity on this forum. You guys are like sharks in a feeding frenzy. OK! OK! Virtual sharks in a virtual feeding frenzy.

But surely it’s not sharks but algae that seem to be among the marine environment’s more successful organisms these days. Sharks continue to decline at the hand of man it seems. But algae? They’re blooming miraculous it seems. Wasn’t it algae that nearly scuppered the boating events at the Beijing Olympics – according to the Sun anyway!

All very small and insignificant units on their own but devestatingly successful as a group.

Maybe there’s a lesson here. And maybe my analogy is a bit off the mark. Shit! What have I just said? No! I’m not accusing you guys of being algae. Stick to the image of sharks if it makes you feel better..

Maybe now that SED seems not to be quite the pressing problem it was, there will now be some increased activity on the uni0n boards. I’ll certainly post soon. For those of you who are RMT members (and we’ve managed to verify this and confirm it to the site adminmistrators) there is a members only board with a, soon to be, new posting from me. You just can’t wait I’m sure.

If you’re an RMT member and want access to this board, please contact me with your details including membership number. The more info you send (inc Nat Ins no if possible) the easier and hopefully quicker we can get you into this forum.

oilc.secretary@gmail.com

And remember guys – you don’t have to transfer to the OILC Branch to get on the members only board, my mailing list, or to be represented by our Regional Organiser Jake. The choice of which branch of RMT you belong to is entirely yours.

To echo the administrator, there is no attempt on anyone’s part to create a two tier workforce. The "uni0n only" board is to allow RMT members to discuss how they intend to proceed uninterrupted by the comments of the undecided or openly hostile.

I would sincerely hope that RMT/OILC members will continue to use the open uni0n board to discuss issues with (and hopefully recruit when appropriate) so far unorganised workers in the ROV sector.

Fraternally

neil

[nearlyheadless]

Guys, Im pleased to say that my 2007/8 tax return has come back and that the UK IR confirmed my seafaring status and that NO tax was due on my Seafaring earnings. However, my Accountant believes that this may change for the 2008/9 tax year, depending upon the outcome of the December Announcement thats due to be made by the Inland Revenue regarding that meeting made in January 2008.

Fingers crossed that they will still keep the SED for us offshore workers!

[OILC_neil]

I also hope you guys keep the SED.

And cross your fingers by all means. It’s supposed to ward off vampires. It hasn’t been proven as a method of warding off Customs and Revenue or Big OIl as yet though.

Maybe we could get back on the open "uni0n" forum and begin to discuss getting organised. I don’t doubt that there there are all sorts of legitimate doubts and concerns about this as a way forward for ROV, but the unconvinced should also have the opportunity to map out how they see the ROV sector’s future.
Fraternally
neil

[Pugwash]

Reading the comments of a few members on here regarding "keeping mouths shut" because HMRC or Big Brother may be watching is disappointing. As far as I’m concerned there are no secrets to this business. We are not fiddling anything or getting anything that we are not entitled to. HMRC on the other hand are fiddling us and keeping our mouths shut is exactly what they want us to do. Under no circumstances slink away like drowned rats under the gaze of authority. Edmund Burke, the 18th century statesman once said, "For evil to triumph it is enough only that good men do nothing". So remember, we are the good guys, they are the bad. Say your piece and get a grip!!

[Gino]

Let’s hope this business is now past us and we carry on as before. Too many people think that offshore workers are overpaid, eat steak all the time and only do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. $700 a day sounds good until you work out the hourly rate, 12 hour day 24/7, unpaid time off Etc. I work out my rate at about 17 quid an hour_ less than the average electrician, plumber, car mechanic, and they go home every night.

However although we are only a small minority we can still do our best to make sure this lot never get elected again. Get family and friends involved, become political activists and hit them where it hurts_ in the ballot box. People have been complacent and dissilusioned for too long. Get them out there voting, convince them that they can make a difference. I would watch the US elections next week and see what happens there. There are some pretty P’d off people in the States at the moment.

[liddelljohn]

Well said GINO !!!!Get rid of Brown and his incompetant, corrupt government.

[Moray]

Hello guys,

Found this on google, government briefing note dated 22 October 2008

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snbt-01221.pdf

Need to keep up the pressure on your MP !

[CheckoffsUglyRumor]

Seems that even if you are a ROV bod and part of the uni0n you can’t expect too much solidarity from the ship drivers.

Last month there were loads of letters printed in Nautilus’ Monthly "Telegraph", along the lines of there being more "supernumeraries" with discharge books than "real mariners" signed on ships articles. Some uni0n members were supporting the revocation of discharge books based on MCA records and whether you form part of minimum manning certificate crew.

The current guidelines, if I remember correctly, give examples that cattlemen working on livestock ferries and hairdressers on cruise liners qualify for SED as they provide a service to the ship (same as the cooks and stewards) – so how could a subsea construction vessel perform without ROV bods, riggers, and surveyors?

I’ve come across just a few ships in my 33 years at sea where small minded captains have either refused to make an entry in my seaman’s book, or have scrawled SUPERNUMERARY over the job description. Should you get into a problem of non-signature then write to the ship owner and demand a discharge certificate (you just staple it into your book)- point out that without ROV pilots the ship would not have got that very lucrative work. Be aware that the word SUPERNUMERARY is not a job description. We all have job titles and those are what should be written in the book. (If you waant to be cheeky, ask the captain how he’d like to be written up as CREW)

When HM Govt turn around and say – no more seaman’s books for you guys, then we’ll get them from the Panama or other authorities that issue seaman’s books – most of us seem to be working for shell companies in Singapore, Gibraltar or some other tax have, just so that our employers don’t get hit for National Insurance contributions; so put pressure on the employer to provide a seaman’s book from there.

If you are allocated a specific duty for fire & emergency stations get a copy of the duty roster and keep it safe – if the ship relies on you to fight fires then you can not be a passenger! Similarlly, when you enter or leave port the Crew List (important words) show you in the same list as the captain, ABs and cooks & stewards – get a copy of that too.

And finally if you are in the uni0n ask your representative why other members are undermining your position and why is Nautilus so crass as to print such crap in their rag. They were quick enough to take ALL the credit for the work done by the guys on this website, but don’t seem to want to be best buddies any more.

[James McLauchlan]

Good post.

I think Nautilus were being small minded and trying to distance themselves from other less seamen type people on a vessel so that if the HMRC dug their heels in they might let the (in Nautilus eyes) ships crew keep SED. Very narrow minded of Nautilus as a uni0n and very bad PR for uni0n solidarity. No doubt the RMT are fully aware of the fast one Nautilus tried to pull and it would not surprise me if a few words have been said, behind the scenes, that you will probably not see published in any magazine.

[bcklad]

What amazes me is certain Nautlius members that work on DSVs/OCVs etc are saying that only certified Seaman should get SED and not project crew.

Well ladies that DSV/OCV cannot function in the role they were designed for without Bubbleheids/ROV Scum and the rest of the project crew so in that sense the project crew are an essential part of the crew.

Also Naultis keep harping on about the PM petition and say over 1,700 have signed.

I am willing to bet my mortgage that most of that 1,700 signatures are from "PROJECT CREW" and not marine personnel.

UniOn’s are not for me , I was a member of the EETPU , AEU and the FBU and each one sold out in the end!!

[DontvoteLABOUR]

Maybe we should be all taking responsibility to remind all our collegues onboard regardless of their parent discipline that together we stand, united we fall.

The e-mail of the Telegraph is telegraph@nautilusuk.org

New registration to protect the innocent (i.e. me), please find attached email sent to Nautilus after reading the ………

However feel free to delete this post if its too public for the site contents.

Yours, hopefully anonomously lol

Good evening,

I have recently had the pleasure of reading Telegraph and found the letters pages amazing.

I work as an Offshore Manager on a ROV construction vessel, yes I’m one of the bottom monitors, these worthless, overpaid Project people with a Discharge Book who mobilise onto the ships of real mariners….etc etc

Yes, the Master and the rest of the marine crew effectively work for me however the marine operation is intrinsic to the successful completion of the projects we as a team deliver.

The jealousy, the wage envy expressed in your letters is very disappointing, never do a job you are dis-satisfied with you will only do it poorly. There are no pressed men on my boat however lets be clear, the reason the ship is afloat is to make money from profitable projects not to provide employment for the Master and Chief Engineer. Personally, I’d have Poles or Indians onboard rather than any of your letter writers.

The down turn in the global economy will lead to a reduction in box traffic and there will be downward pressure on marine wages in the cargo sector. What are the two "real" mariners on each ship going to do, work in the oil industry ?

If those with operational control of the vessel are excluded from SED then boats working in the North Sea will be alongside more often. When its no longer in my interests to sail by 2230 then, WOW will be alongside rather than offshore. Immingham or Ijmuiden, Lerwick or Bergen its my call, not the Masters, lets see which is the most effective mob port. Trust me, if SED is removed we will all loss out.

Think on my marine friends, and talk constructively to the RMT, a united front is whats needed, we may be ship mates soon. To err is human, to arr is pirate !

[liddelljohn]

spot on once again.

[K2]

"regard to classifying certain vessels as installations following the decision by the Commissioners with regard to Pride South America. This is that a structure that undertakes duties which are part of the process of exploitation of mineral resources whilst standing or stationed will be treated as an offshore installation but a similar vessel which carries out its duties in a mobile or transient fashion will continue to be regarded as a ship"

So, if you are on a vessel using the sub for field commissioning it will be classed as an installation but if that same vessel and sub then go off to chase pipe the vessel will become a ship……….. 😕

Is it any wonder with halfwits comming up with these rules that our country is going down the pan…..

[James McLauchlan]

However feel free to delete this post if its too public for the site contents

Not too public, so it stays.

[saefarer]

Surely all these VERY educated people can read and understand, the SED was introduced after the first Iraq war to ensure that there was/is a pool of qualified British SEAFARERS, so that in times of conflict ships required for strategic duties can be manned by such. Although a DSV/ROV vessel is unable to be operated commercially without the project team, it will be of little use when transporting tanks etc to the other side of the world.
If the members of this forum want to maintain there tax exempt status then it is suggested they join the merchant navy and then be classed as a seafarer, assuming they have the ability to do so.
The sooner the inland revenue/goverment establish a definition of a seafarer, rather than a ship, the better, although I am sure some members can suggest there own definition!

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