H M Revenue & Customs TAX Ruling

[ROV_Monkey]

The "law" will not be changed.

What we should be pushing for is a definition of how it is interpreted, i.e. what the guidelines are.

As I understand it the ruling is that the law is the same, and the guidelines reflect this 5 day deal

change, but no change,,,the previous guideline or interpretation was for 3 days

Monkey

[Gamekeeper]

There is still nothing clearly defined, all is still open to interpretation…… if you have also read all your previous posts & links this issue is still all as clear as mud, but I will stand corrected……. I tend to agree with ROV Monkey regarding bimbling in & out for massaging purposes.

I still stand by my previous post regarding the "Subsea Contractors" meddling with this issue, may not be the best for the shop floor guys…….

[Moray]

Unfortunately its not quite like that and represents a significant change.

The PSA judement considered the issue of relevant use as in the offshore installations definition in the Finance Act 2004.

The significant change is in the use of the word relevant rather than specific, i.e. following the PSA ruling any activity in the oil industry can be a relevant use in relation to exploiting mineral reserves.

A supply vessel can now be considered as relevant as a drilling rig, hence the use of sustantially stationary and the difficulty in its definition.

This is a back door trap for subsea related vessels, the three day previosuly applied under Safety Case legislation had absolutely NO legal standing. The draft guidance applies a "rule of thumb" 5 days theshold but again, there is NO legal standing.

The law therefore gives us no protection, the guidance is at the discretion of HMRC.

Hence the need for the support of Parliament.

[Gamekeeper]

And not as clear cut as you indicate above……..

[Moray]

I sincerley hope you are correct, but for clarity is your opinion based on legal advice or wishful thinking ?

[ROV_Monkey]

Unfortunately its not quite like that and represents a significant change.

The PSA judement considered the issue of relevant use as in the offshore installations definition in the Finance Act 2004.

The significant change is in the use of the word relevant rather than specific, i.e. following the PSA ruling any activity in the oil industry can be a relevant use in relation to exploiting mineral reserves.

A supply vessel can now be considered as relevant as a drilling rig, hence the use of sustantially stationary and the difficulty in its definition.

This is a back door trap for subsea related vessels, the three day previosuly applied under Safety Case legislation had absolutely NO legal standing. The draft guidance applies a "rule of thumb" 5 days theshold but again, there is NO legal standing.

The law therefore gives us no protection, the guidance is at the discretion of HMRC.

Hence the need for the support of Parliament.

The law gave no protection, and was at the guidance of HMRC before this (3 days) and will be from Feb ruling (5 days).

Hence, no change, except for an extra 2 days to play with…

So….no real change…..

Monkey

[Moray]

No change ?

The PSA judgement ……….didn’t just move the goal posts in HMCR direction, it moved the whole pitch.

Are benign interpretations of the guidance likely ?

Without the support of MP’s and a strong steer to HMRC that ships that look like ships, move like ships are ships its only a matter of time before the boats are picked off one at a time.

[ROV_Monkey]

No change ?

The PSA judgement ……….didn’t just move the goal posts in HMCR direction, it moved the whole pitch.

Are benign interpretations of the guidance likely ?

Without the support of MP’s and a strong steer to HMRC that ships that look like ships, move like ships are ships its only a matter of time before the boats are picked off one at a time.

Moray,
I just don’t see how this is a significant change from what went before.

There has been NO new rules, all that has happend during the Pride case was that the rules were "interpreted" by a judge and the Pride was found to be wanting – as it should have been.

The classification of vessels has not changed, HMRC has simply clarified that their tax status is dependant on the work they carry out – this was always the case.

HMRC always had the ability to class a "vessel" as an "installatiion". It just never hit the headlines before.

If anything it has cleared the air somewhat in that we now know just how HMRC look to change classification from vessel to installation for tax purposes, and how we can subvert it.

I repeat – the LAW will not be changed, all that we can put pressure on is the interpretation of the law and guidelines issued subsequent to this.

That is where we need to focus our efforts, and what we need to watch – at the moment it’s still OK, but it may change.

To change the LAW will reopen the whole installation / oil rig scenario again – that is a done deal, we can not win that, and is a totally different argement to this.

Monkey

[Gamekeeper]

For clarity my Opinion is based on my own interpretation of all the information that I have read thus far, I will consider the guidance when available & then take Professional advice from there on in. Whether I pursue my MP or not will continue to be my perogative & will not be part of any public dialogue……. for me I will continue to observe this board for additional information & not the continual manipulation of the info already available.

[ROV_Monkey]

For clarity my Opinion is based on my own interpretation of all the information that I have read thus far, I will consider the guidance when available & then take Professional advice from there on in. Whether I pursue my MP or not will continue to be my perogative & will not be part of any public dialogue……. for me I will continue to observe this board for additional information & not the continual manipulation of the info already available.

I agree,

So far, no new news

Monkey

[Moray]

No problems, I understand you find it difficult to make sense of the words, hence the simplified discussion from Atholl Scott (link below).

Denial is certainly a part of human nature, but unfortunately it it is distracting and wastes time when we could still have an influence.

Just to bring the links back to the top of the thread for those that are interested,

http://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2009/01/28/53962/Gales+later.htm

To contact your MP, to remind them that a Ship is a ship regardless of whether it transports general cargo or a diving/ROV system, the basic marine competencies are the same,

http://www.writetothem.com/?a=westminstermp

[thefidler]

How many of you guys have had you refund for year ending April 2008???

it should of all gone through by now..

[Buffel]

Moray, much as I admire your perseverance, I have spent a considerable length of time fighting HMRC (successfully, thankfully) but without seeing the final draft there is nothing we can achieve. Have you not noticed that our elected representatives (including Anne Begg,) are no longer listening to us or replying to letters or emails about this issue. Brown and Captain Darling have brought the country to it’s knees and still pass the keys to the safe to the corrupt and morally bankrupt Merchant Bankers the Exchequer needs all the cash they can steal no matter where they can get it(still give £20million to gaza though!!!wtf!!). What is the demise of SED and what’s left or the UK merchant navy.They have a white knuckle death grip on power and the Labour Whip will tolerate no upset.Your MP has had her 2 minutes of fame and been seen to make sympathetic noises but now they are heads down behind the parapet,we are just ungrateful turds on the steps to be quietly avoided.My own Mp is also in the Oil and Gas comimittee, he too is avoiding the issue!! if they wont listen what more can we do!He has moved on from us to champion the Post Office not being privatised he has found a more popular horse than a bunch of overpaid Oil workers to support.Cynical,bloody right I am,bitter,yep, but got any better ideas.Nope thought not! Emigrate,Europe is going down the pan,but slower than us and the weather is better so that’s always a plan I suppose.

[ROV_Monkey]

How many of you guys have had you refund for year ending April 2008???

it should of all gone through by now..

Hi,
Put mine through tail end of last year, went through no problem

Monkey

[Adolf]

Hi all,
Anybody heard any NEW news regarding the SED situation, Im hearing a few new whispers onboard this vessel yesterday and today 🙄 🙄 But not believing anything until someone recieves something in writing.

Too many people causing extra grief by spreading rumours 😡 😡

[Author]

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